Someone explain CR rating and how they work

[dkilgo]

Good question, Elvinis75.

But, I believe that an appropriate answer would be as such:

If that were the case then you would have to adhoc most, if not all, of your xp awards due to situational modifiers. Yes, the situation has potential to adjust the EL of the encounter, but not always. You probably as a GM try to make all encounters challenging and difficult for your players, but because the situations are constantly changing the amount of the xp awards would be constantly changing. So, I believe that is why the creators of the game just left the xp awards dependant on the CR of the creature instead of the EL. Awarding xp dependant upon the CR of the creature allows the xp awards to be more structured, and organized. I may very well be wrong, but that is my opinion.

 

[the Jester]

Ah, gotcha.

I'm with dkilgo on this- the situation changes the EL, not the CR. But the EL can change the xp. If you get the chance, check out Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil- it has fantastic examples of how odd situations that make a combat more tactically difficult should affect the xp.

EL is reflected in the xp in that, to achieve a higher EL battle, you need more creatures of a lower CR- thus earning xp for all of them. It isn't always an even progression, but a fight against 8 5th-level rogues isn't likely to be exactly the same difficulty as a fight against 4 hill giants. In my experience, the basic CR/EL system works pretty well.

CRs are set up assuming a party of baseline wealth. So if you lower the wealth you increase the difficulty- not by increasing the monster's effectiveness, but rather by decreasing the party's. EL is a guideline to help you figure out how tough of a fight a given mix of monsters will be.

 

[kreynolds]

dkilgo makes a really good point. One of the biggest situational EL modifiers I can think of is a Kyton. Fight him in a empty room, and the EL is normal. Fight him in a 20 x 20 x 20 room filled with 60 chains and the EL is now substantially higher.

 

[the Jester]

dkilgo makes a really good point. One of the biggest situational EL modifiers I can think of is a Kyton. Fight him in a empty room, and the EL is normal. Fight him in a 20 x 20 x 20 room filled with 60 chains and the EL is now substantially higher.

Hey, I ran that encounter!

Another great example of a situational EL change is with the possession rules from the BoVD. If a demon with possession abilities (adds 2 to its CR, let's say boosting it to CR10) never gets to use its possession powers, it's really more like an EL8 encounter.

 

[CRGreathouse]

But the EL can change the xp.

This is the way I run it, but that's counter to both the DMG and the D&D Rules FAQ.

 

[the Jester]

This is the way I run it, but that's counter to both the DMG and the D&D Rules FAQ.

It is??

I thought the DMG talked about ad hoc adjustments to xp based on situation, and also about how situations adjust ELs... and looking at RttToEE, there's lots of Monte Cook precedence for it.

But my books are (still) stored with a friend right now, so can you maybe throw a quote in here for me? I'd like to know what the rules actually say on the subject, since I may have been doing it wrong for, oh, two years.

Thanks!

 

[CRGreathouse]

It is??

Yeah. I'll try to find it for you tomorrow, but I'm off to bed now (it's 1:30 AM EST). I want to say DMG page 101, but let me look it up.

I thought the DMG talked about ad hoc adjustments to xp based on situation, and also about how situations adjust ELs...

Oh, it does. The section for ad-hoc XP penalties is in chapter 7. Don't ask me, I didn't write or edit the DMG... all I know is that it says to award XP based on CR, never EL. Go figure.

I suggest doing it the way you do now.

 

[kreynolds]

It is??

Not exactly. You always assign the base amount of XP based upon the CR of the creatures involved (to your satisfaction). Awarding XP based upon the EL is what I call "situational XP", such as the Kyton I mentioned above. Like you said, RttToEE includes a lot of situational modifiers, and so did The Demon God's Fane (also by Monte Cook). It's also worth nothing that at least 20% (a rough guess) of the encounters in City of the Spider Queen also include situational modifiers that are based on the encounter level.

 

[the Jester]

Not exactly. You always assign the base amount of XP based upon the CR of the creatures involved (to your satisfaction). Awarding XP based upon the EL is what I call "situational XP", such as the Kyton I mentioned above. Like you said, RttToEE includes a lot of situational modifiers, and so did The Demon God's Fane (also by Monte Cook). It's also worth nothing that at least 20% (a rough guess) of the encounters in City of the Spider Queen also include situational modifiers that are based on the encounter level.

Oh, okay, that's what I thought... I guess there was just some poor phrasing goin' on there for a little bit! Sorry to confuse.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I use the HTML XP calculator. I'm sure there's a link to it somewhere around here. It gives me a basis to work with, and then I modify the xp depending on the "situational difficulty" of the encounter. I once ran an encounter with 10 8th level rogues against a party of 6 8th/9th level characters. The rogues all managed to get in sneak attack attempts in the surprise round. Most of them still managed to miss. The party managed to kill them in 3 rounds after that. They barely broke a sweat. The calculator said I should give each of them 2000 xp (or something) and I figured they had barely earned 500. The only unbalancing factor was a lack of magical items among the rogues (low magic campaign) and several among the PCs (which the rogues were trying to get).