Something Awful leak.

[GreyICE]

That'd pretty much be why we don't trust Monte, yes. It seems like he wants to cater to absolutely everyone (by which he seems to mean pretty much solely 3E players) by making an RPG that incorporates everything that 3E and AD&D were, and maybe a few elements of 4E (keep the Warlord, but the Warlord can't restore HP because that's magical only, etc.).

His articles have revealed a deep, breathtaking ignorance of 4E (he made one about how cool it would be if you didn't need to roll the dice to perceive ambushes or traps, and how that was a great idea for Next that completely ignored the fact it was in 4E, something that you couldn't miss if you, say, ever had a 4E character sheet in front of you) and he's been dismissive of the system and people's concerns over it since the year dot.

My bet is the grognards stick with Pathfinder, those of us who like a tight balanced system stick with 4E, and Next tanks.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

nope. Not in 4e. It was in 4e, but shot down in the playtest. Passive perception vs static DC was not fully implemented in 4e.
I don´t know wherein your problem lies. I don´t see 4e people neclected in 5e. Of course the power system can´t be in the base game. Vancian magic needs to be in. Some adjustments for warlord healing are ok.
4e and 3e and especially ADnD are all great games. Or were... at their time. 5e will be the best at its time. Beeing inspired by all editions.

 

[Kynn]

No, it is NOT inevitable. 4E has the equivalent in Passive Insight and Passive Perception, and after four years of crunch-bloat I am not aware of a single thing that modifies Passive Insight independently of Insight, or Passive Perception independently of Perception. Likewise, 4E has exactly zero effects that modify your ability scores.

Stag Helm and Premonition Ring both give increases to Passive Perception (and not to Perception in general).

 

[GreyICE]

nope. Not in 4e. It was in 4e, but shot down in the playtest. Passive perception vs static DC was not fully implemented in 4e.
I don´t know wherein your problem lies. I don´t see 4e people neclected in 5e. Of course the power system can´t be in the base game. Vancian magic needs to be in. Some adjustments for warlord healing are ok.
4e and 3e and especially ADnD are all great games. Or were... at their time. 5e will be the best at its time. Beeing inspired by all editions.

See, statements that "of course" powers aren't in the base game (for any class at all) and "of course" vancian magic is in makes me think you're fundamentally biased and preaching to me.

4E is, in my opinion, the best version of DnD ever made, and I don't want 3E with a few bones tossed to me to remind me of the best system ever.

 

[Janaxstrus]

See, statements that "of course" powers aren't in the base game (for any class at all) and "of course" vancian magic is in makes me think you're fundamentally biased and preaching to me.

4E is, in my opinion, the best version of DnD ever made, and I don't want 3E with a few bones tossed to me to remind me of the best system ever.

I would get used to the idea that the magic default will be Vancian magic, likely with Unearthed Arcana style modular options to allow for other systems.

From what I've found and read, it seems to be the preferred method. (for the designers)

 

[GreyICE]

I would get used to the idea that the magic default will be Vancian magic, likely with Unearthed Arcana style modular options to allow for other systems.

From what I've found and read, it seems to be the preferred method. (for the designers)

I'm getting used to playing 4E.

Wait, I'm already used to it.

No transition needed.

 

[Janaxstrus]

I'm getting used to playing 4E.

Wait, I'm already used to it.

No transition needed.

Then why seemingly so worked up about 5e? If you don't want to switch...don't. I know lots that never switched from 3 to 4, 1 to 2, etc etc

 

[GreyICE]

Then why seemingly so worked up about 5e? If you don't want to switch...don't. I know lots that never switched from 3 to 4, 1 to 2, etc etc

Because I was hoping 5E would be another step forward for D&D.

Pretty much every edition has been a step forward in many ways. 3E built on AD&D, simplifying and boradening the scope, 4E built on 3E, rebalancing and creating new tactical options. I was hoping Next would build on 4E, making an even better game.

This leak pretty much confirms that's not going to happen.

 

[Hussar]

Then why seemingly so worked up about 5e? If you don't want to switch...don't. I know lots that never switched from 3 to 4, 1 to 2, etc etc

You realize the irony in this don't you. Considering 5e's goal is to bring EVERYONE together? Not just cater to your tastes and giving a big middle finger salute to everyone else because, so long as you're happy, there's no problem?

You have to realize that there is a fair chunk of players for whom 4e actually does represent improvements on the system. Simply trying to shut out 4e players so that we can get some sort of WOTC version of Pathfinder isn't the way to go.

There has to be some degree of compromise. If all they do is cut and paste mechanics from earlier editions and pretend that 4e is the red-headed stepchild of the game, they are just as guilty of ignoring the fanbase as 3e critics complain they were going into 4e.

Considering the level of pissing and moaning that went into 4e, I would think that 4e critics would be somewhat sensitive to other fans wishes to not be marginalized by the new edition.

Or, is it simply payback time, and everyone who isn't on the "back to 3e" bandwagon can just piss off?

 

[Dice4Hire]

Sure looks like some people in this thread could use a time out till the actual playtest documents are released.

I know I am ready to take one.