Song of Ice and Fire question

Wippit Guud

First Post
I guess it's about the books, so not really RPG-related, but there's an RPG coming out based on it. So, after reading all three books, and throwing book 3 across the room at one point (those who have read it know which point), I have a question which has been nagging me...


Who's the "good guys"?
 
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Throwing it because of the bloody wedding? =)

I guess I'd say, there are no real "good guys". Yet the the starks are the focus of the story, and would seem to be the main characters. I think alot of the idea is to see the characters evolve and their motivations for making certain decisions. Like Jaime for instance, someone in the begining who was clearly painted as an all around bad guy, turns out to be not as bad as you think he is.
 


I couldn't throw my book because it was on an ereader...

I think the book doesn't focus on good and evil as black and whites, except for those with strict honor (i.e. the Starks). The others are too human to say that they're good or evil, merely motivated by personal goals and desires not convinient for others. :)
 

Wippit Guud said:
I guess it's about the books, so not really RPG-related, but there's an RPG coming out based on it. So, after reading all three books, and throwing book 3 across the room at one point (those who have read it know which point), I have a question which has been nagging me...


Who's the "good guys"?

That's hard to say. Bran Stark?

Everyone has shades of good and bad - that's why we love it :-) Though Gregor Clegane and a few others were pure evil...
 

astralpwka said:
I couldn't throw my book because it was on an ereader...

I think the book doesn't focus on good and evil as black and whites, except for those with strict honor (i.e. the Starks). The others are too human to say that they're good or evil, merely motivated by personal goals and desires not convinient for others. :)


Spoilers

The first time I read the books, I could not remember anything after the Red Wedding. It was not until I read other people's discussions that I started remembering that the wedding was not the ending of the book. My favorite line in the book was Kat's description of her own death. I can't quote it, but it was something along, he pressed the sword to my neck, and it was cold and red. However it was written, it was powerful.
 

Wippit Guud said:
Who's the "good guys"?

Jon Snow.

It occured to me reading through the second time that Mr Martin really likes Jon. It just comes through in the writing quite a bit.

I think he has a soft spot for Tyrion as well, but well I'm really rather scared about what's happening to him. Only decent person in his family....

Anybody see that conversion in Dragon? Did they read the same books I did? Stannis a Paladin? Tyrion with a 6 charisma? Right...
 

Good in the alignment sense or in the protagonist sense? In the alignment sense... Ned Stark, the Kingsguard who actually kept their vows (all dead before the start of the first book, of course), and probably Bran, Meera, and... her brother, whatsisname. Hmm, possibly Sansa, she seems to be Lawful Good tending towards Stupid at times. Jury's out on Daenyrys, she might end up good. And that's about it, most people are neutral or evil.

If you mean in the protagonist sense, the good guys are the ones who fight against the Others (assuming the Others really do want to break the Wall and kill all the living, which isn't certain). That's a fair number of characters at different times. The bad guys are the ones who screw around with personal ambitions and priorities rather than seeing to the defense of the land.
 

I suppose that really depends on what you mean by 'heroes'. Several characters are backed into corners, and act in ways they might not prefer to. Other characters behave in a manner matching the 'realpolitik' of the world, which is filled with shades of moral ambiguity.


There are, however, many characters who are both good and heroes. Bran, Jon Snow, Ser Davos, Ned Stark, and Rickon are all heroes. Daenrys could be considered heroic, even if her methods are not always so..and certainly many of the knights, such as the runaway knight in disguise with Dany, are virtous in their own right. Both sisters and Rob Stark are good people, even if they either turn a blind eye to some things, or (in Arya's case) commit violence. Arya is, IMHO, one of the most heroic, in that she's fighting against so many injustices one could lose count. Her travelling companions are certainly good people, as was her fencing teacher. The same applies for the Maesters, to some degree.

If you're looking for a hero with no flaws who makes no concessions to evil, self-interest or mediocrity, then you've come to wrong place.
 

Re: Re: Song of Ice and Fire question

DevoutlyApathetic said:


Jon Snow.



I think he has a soft spot for Tyrion as well, but well I'm really rather scared about what's happening to him. Only decent person in his family....


Tyrion rocks, he is my favorite character.

But, he is a dynamic character that is not neccessary for the story to progress, which can often lead to death. Since he is one of the most interesting characters, I hope he does not meet a premature end, but I could see his death as a stepping stone for several other characters. I still think he will become King.
 

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