Song of Ice and Fire question

[Utrecht]

I suppose that really depends on what you mean by 'heroes'. Several characters are backed into corners, and act in ways they might not prefer to. Other characters behave in a manner matching the 'realpolitik' of the world, which is filled with shades of moral ambiguity.

Also, do not forget that alot of the good vs. bad stuff is heavily laced with Western perceptions. Thus, people may see Danyreas as neutral - but using a Eastern (or Middle Eastern) perception - she is quite good and quite heroic.

Incidently, that is why I like the books - the only good people are those under 10 years old. After that - they almost always all go neutral....

 

[Dinkeldog]

Just because your question is really about the books and not the RPG, I'm sliding this to the books forum.

 

[Mercule]

Hmm...

Most of the Starks are Good or Good/Neutral borderline.

Ned was very much LG. He was honorable for the sake of righteousness.

Jon Snow seems to be a decent fellow who used to be Neutral, but is becoming more Good as his vision is expanded. Probably my favorite character.

Arya is basically Good, but she's got enough of a bloodthirsty streak in her that she may not stay there for long.

Rob was probably NG with some CN tendancies. He tried to do right by his people and family, but despite being clever and good with people was rather short-sighted.

Davos is either LN with LG tendancies or vice versa. He has few personal aspirations beyond the survival and betterment of his family, but he is willing to go out of his way for others. Strangely, the more he is pressed to make tough choices, the more he seems to choose "right".

Of course, his loyalty may be misplaced (or not) to Stannis. Stannis is a little off the deep end of LN. I figure I'd register as CG, and I can't hardly stand Stannis. He is worse than the Queen in my eyes and only exceeded by Melisandra and the Mountain. I'm hoping he meets a rather painful end.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Funny that some people think its essential to have "good guys" in order to make sense Does show that the fantasy genre has its "tendencies" as do people in many situations.

The need to define "evil" is certainly not a grand one.

 

[JoeBlank]

Howcum we always look for good v. evil in fantasy ficyion? Other forms of pop culture do not insist on this distinction. Who are the good guys in Pulp Fiction? Or The Sopranos?

To me, the thing that makes the series so enjoyable is the fact that all of the character's have realistic motivations. If the books were a storyhour of an RPG, all of the players would deserve roleplaying bonuses. The charcters act consistently within their individual motivations, rather than worrying about the greater good and sacrificing themselves to be heroic.

 

[KenM]

I just started the 3rd book. Enjoying it alot. The Imp is my favorite character. He is not strong, or good looking, but boy is he smart and resorceful.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I once read somewhere on the Internet -- probably on these very boards -- that the series was originally intended to be basically two trilogies, with the second taking place several years after the first, when the children had grown up some.

Having recently finished Book 3, or what would be the final book of the first trilogy, that makes a lot of sense. The book just felt like the culmination of a story arc. Oh sure, there are still plenty of unresolved conflicts, unanswered questions and unfinished business to carry over to the next books. But with all that happened toward the end of Book 3, it just seemed as if Martin was wrapping up some things -- sort of like a TV series ending one season with a cliff-hanger, to maintain interest for the next season.

I'm also glad to know I wasn't the only one shocked by the red wedding. I can't say I was surprised, but I was shocked. Now, the other wedding reception -- that completely surprised me, although as I was reading the chapter, I did realize what was going to happen before it actually happened. But still, it was a surprise.

Getting back to my original statement, I have since read -- again, probably on these boards -- that Martin now intends to write seven books in all, with the next book bridging the time between the originally planned first and second trilogies. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Dagger75]

I would say Jon Snow and Bran are a few of the good guys in the series IMHO.

Jamie is going from evil to good. I hated this guy in the first book, the third book I actually liked him. Its like he finally woke up and saw the world for the first time.

Arya (my favorite character) is going from good to bad. I think she will be one of the main bad evil people roaming Westros. I bet she leaves a pretty high body count before..(my own prediction) Sansa kills her.

Tyrion- I don't think he is one of the good guys. He will help the good guys, hell he will help anyone who he thinks he can use to get ahead in the world. He is a very cool character though.

Those are my thoughts. I need to reread the books again.

 

[Sirius_Black]

Spoiler warnings

Wippit Guud noted:

throwing book 3 across the room at one point (those who have read it know which point),

and Soul put forth:

Throwing it because of the bloody wedding?

That chapter in Book 3 detailing the Red Wedding is without a doubt, one of the most disturbing chapters I have ever read in a book. Wonderfully written. I wanted to reach out and help hang some of the Freys in the novel's epilogue.

I just finished book 3 last night, having started the series two weeks ago for the first time. Wow!

I believe I recall seeing this series mentioned on these boards several months ago. The positive comments stuck in my head and after reading some authors mentioning the series and seeing the short story in Dragon #305, I picked up Game of Thrones.

Thank you to everyone who posted their comments about the series in the old thread. I am so glad someone pointed out this dazzling series of books. And now I and my family are utterly vexed that we are in another series in which we are waiting on the author to finish his work.

Am I right that I heard Feast of Crows was intended to come out sometime this year, but now has been pushed back? If so, is this a habit with Mr. Martin?

Xeriar noted:

Everyone has shades of good and bad - that's why we love it

To quote the wise sage Fonzie, Exactamundo.

Know the Toe commented:

My favorite line in the book was Kat's description of her own death. I can't quote it, but it was something along, he pressed the sword to my neck, and it was cold and red. However it was written, it was powerful.

And her hair, if I recall she mentioned something as they jerked her head back about, "Not my hair, ned loves my hair." Sad, sad, sad.

DevoutlyApathetic revealed:

Anybody see that conversion in Dragon? Did they read the same books I did? Stannis a Paladin? Tyrion with a 6 charisma? Right...

Oh Cyric. I just ordered this from FRP games last week. Please tell me that there exists some good things in Dragon's attempts to convert this world?

JoeBlank said:

If the books were a storyhour of an RPG, all of the players would deserve roleplaying bonuses

I can see the fan letter George R.R. Martin receives one day. Congratulations, your characters get roleplaying bonuses, but first are you using edition 3.0 or 3.5?

Shadowdancer commented:

I have since read -- again, probably on these boards -- that Martin now intends to write seven books in all, with the next book bridging the time between the originally planned first and second trilogies. Can anyone confirm this?

I'm very curious if someone could point out such a comment and the source. I thought I heard when I first read about this that it was to be six, but that was some time ago, and my memory isn't, well it never was that great.

I think I need to go online and see what I can find about websites devoted to this series or the author. Anyone know of any good ones?

 

[Soul]

Throwing it because of the bloody wedding? =)

I guess I'd say, there are no real "good guys". Yet the the starks are the focus of the story, and would seem to be the main characters. I think alot of the idea is to see the characters evolve and their motivations for making certain decisions. Like Jaime for instance, someone in the begining who was clearly painted as an all around bad guy, turns out to be not as bad as you think he is.