Sorcerer: A racial trait?

[Tuzenbach]

From the whole viewpoint of the Sorcerer being "born with innate magical ability", why should this be categorized as a class as opposed to a race? IMHO, a "class" is what a character decides to be or an occupation that was forced upon him (like a gladiator), while a "race" is something the character was born with. However, the whole concept of the Sorcerer class involves being born with magical abilites. Does this make a character born unto these circumstances a Sorcerer even if said character chooses the path of, say, Monk or Fighter or Thief?

I'm not sure if this argument has been brought up on these boards yet, so if it has, please just summarize the outcome for me and I'll say "thank you" and be on my way.

I was inspired to see the Sorcerer from this perspective based upon the excellent work of Khaalis who reasoned (and most logically so!) that if a Sorcerer had innnate magical talents then they must be derived from somewhere and, thus, "lineages" were born. Surely, if a human or elf or whatever has some demonic or draconic or divine blood flowing through him or her then that character is something a little bit "different" from just a regular human or elf, yes?

I don't know. I just feel that the Sorcerer should be treated as more "race" than "class", just because of the whole "being born into it" thingy. If not a race unto themselves, then certainly a racial trait.

Am I alone in this???

 

[Ferret]

You've just given me a good idea.

You get an +1 LA template from 1st level and cost one LA each level. You can turn the Fiendish and celestial into these.

 

[Tuzenbach]

You've just given me a good idea.

You get an LA template from 1st level and cost one LA each level. You can turn the Fiendish and celestial into these.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's an "LA template"?

 

[Ferret]

Pardon my bad spelling but thats a "+1 LA template"

 

[Tuzenbach]

Pardon my bad spelling but thats a "+1 LA template"

I'm sorry, but I REALLY don't know what an LA template is, +1 or otherwise. You see, I'm only a part-time gamer and only just read the 3E PHB three months ago. LA=Language ability? Level ascention? Last apple? Really, I don't know..........

 

[CCamfield]

Level Adjustment. It means that a character with such a template is treated as one level higher than normal (if there's a +1 Level Adjustment, that is).

The sorcerer as written up as a class can't qualify as a race, an ordinary one, anyhow, because it's simply too powerful. Personally I think the concept works as a class - just because you have innate power doesn't mean you can master it fully without experience and training.

 

[Khaalis]

The problem with the Core Flavor text of the sorcerer is the same that exists with the Barbarian. You are correct Tuz that a "profession" or ones' class should have no reflection of culture or race involved. The Barbarian as written in its flavor text does not fit all cultures. It is biased and racist in its context to begin with. It describes all barbarians in the light that Caucasions wrote of Native Americans on arrival in North America, or Africans on arrival in Africa. They describe them as basically uneducated heathens. On a personal note I find it rather disconscerting, but I can set that asside. From a fantasy point of view it is designed to be akin to the Cinematic version of Conan. Still - in a fantasy setting the whole idea of the Barbarian being uneducated heathens doesnt work either, nor does it truly fit the class mechanic. The class should have dropped any cultural references in the flavor text - especially the inability to read, and simply named them Berserkers since the mechanic is more designed after a Viking Berserker. Anway...

The sorcerer suffers the same "racial/cultural" taint in the flavor text. In my sorcerer variant however, I had to decide to work With the flavor text instead of doing away with it - for one reason. The flavor text is the only part of the class that is NOT OGL. Thus I decided to create a class mechanic that was based on the flavor text and meant to match the flavor text - something I feel the core class doesnt even come close to. In this way, I was hoping to make a class that more equally matched the description of what the class was meant to be.

However, with that said, your idea falls very close to the idea WotC has used in their Psionic races. Races that are inherently psionic in nature. For example the Dark Sun Dwarf has an Innate Power of 3 power points and know the 1st level power Vigor. From a racial standpoint, if you wanted to create sorcerers as being innate, I agree with Ferret - that this could be done as +1 Level Adjustment template to the standard race; something more akin to the Shadowwalker template.

Just some rambling thoughts.

 

[Liquidsabre]

From the whole viewpoint of the Sorcerer being "born with innate magical ability", why should this be categorized as a class as opposed to a race? IMHO, a "class" is what a character decides to be or an occupation that was forced upon him (like a gladiator), while a "race" is something the character was born with. However, the whole concept of the Sorcerer class involves being born with magical abilites. Does this make a character born unto these circumstances a Sorcerer even if said character chooses the path of, say, Monk or Fighter or Thief?

Sure, a character with the inborn power of a Sorcerer may very well ignore the calling and instead take levels in rogue or fighter instead. Perfectly fine. Perhaps this Rogue always heard the inner whisperings their whole life but never persued it, their choice. (i.e. players choice of course).

Now, this very same character could have instead chosen to heed that calling, and develop their inborn gift, thus becoming a Sorcerer instead (as per Player choice of course). Perhaps the very same character decided to ignore this inner power, considering it the call of a higher power to arcane study and use the mastery of their mind to delve into ancient magical texts to learn magic.

It's flavor-text mate. Take what you want and leave the rest when making the character. It's just one of theose explanations to appease the minds f us all to inquisitve gamers who must need ask the question: but where did they get this magical power if not by studyign magical words of power or harnessing ancient mystical secrets? (Thereby horning in on the archetypal Wizard magic casting abilities when introduced in 3.0 )

The Base Classes are the D&D standard archetypes and are pretty handy for you typical fantasy game. Of course for the not-so-typical game the house ruels forum is a great place to pick up new base classes and other sundires too.

I'm not sure if this argument has been brought up on these boards yet, so if it has, please just summarize the outcome for me and I'll say "thank you" and be on my way.

Actually, it's quite refreshing. I'd have to say I haven't seen it much before expressed in this way as most of us on the boards here are usually rather steeped in D&D to the point that we don't usually consider the basic conceptual basis (such as base classes) for the game too often. But it does happen.

I was inspired to see the Sorcerer from this perspective based upon the excellent work of Khaalis who reasoned (and most logically so!) that if a Sorcerer had innnate magical talents then they must be derived from somewhere and, thus, "lineages" were born. Surely, if a human or elf or whatever has some demonic or draconic or divine blood flowing through him or her then that character is something a little bit "different" from just a regular human or elf, yes?

I don't know. I just feel that the Sorcerer should be treated as more "race" than "class", just because of the whole "being born into it" thingy. If not a race unto themselves, then certainly a racial trait.

Am I alone in this???

Various Dragon Magazine articles have covered the topic of the source of a Sorcerer's powers (Dragon #280 covered quite alot about Sorcerers when they first came out and later articles further explored their origins such as the Arcane Bloodlines) and many others have voiced their opinions on the subject of the Sorcerer class itself: from Monte Cook's Uneartherd Arcana alternate Sorcerer (way back in 3.0, over 3 years ago) to the multitude of disgruntled folk that have posted their many different variant sorcerers after 3.5 came out.

The Sorcerer class is just another Archetypal concept, instead of the studious Wizard who memorizes and cast their spells through years of focused study to the natural wild spell-slinging Sorcerer. The magical blood is just flavor text that is often latched onto and the very same thing could be said about the monk's special mystical abilities, the barbarian's unnatural rage, or the Druid's uncommon connection to all things natural.

To sum up: "Where does *insert class* get their powers from?"

Barbarian - Tribal heritage/culture, harsh/wild living
Cleric - Divine Source (A Deity)
Druid - Divine Source (Nature, could also be a Deity)
Monk - Mastery of Mind & Body, transcendence of self, etc.
Sorcerer - Magically infused blood as a source of their arcane power
Wizard - Study of Arcane words of power and mastery of the mind

and so on...

 

[shoes]

Agreed. I too had the idea of the Sorcerer being a template of some kind. I'll give a better post later, to tired right now to think.