Sorcerer/Bard bonus spells for buffs?

scott2978

First Post
One of my players is a bard. He cast a Charisma buff on himself and declared that he could now cast more spells because he gets more bonus spell slots for his new, temporary higher charisma. Now the Sorcerer in the party wants to take a Charisma buff to keep giving himself and the bard additional bonus spells all day long.

I can't find anything in RAW that addresses this situation directly. A wizard or cleric would have to prepare a spell in the new slot so that is less useful, but a spontaneous spellcaster could get an unlimited number of spells per day as long as the charisma buffs hold out because they gain a slot, and don't have to prepare a spell to use it.

So my questions are these:

1. Does a temporary buff give a spontaneous caster more bonus spells they can cast?

2. Can they use it to re-use those slots over and over?
 

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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Assuming your talking about Eagle's Splendor, no, it doesn't work like that:

Eagle?s Splendor :: d20srd.org
The transmuted creature becomes more poised, articulate, and personally forceful. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma, adding the usual benefits to Charisma-based skill checks and other uses of the Charisma modifier. Sorcerers and bards (and other spellcasters who rely on Charisma) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Charisma, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase.

(Emphasis mine.)
 

green slime

First Post
It really, really, really bugs me when players don't bother to read the full spell or ability description. As in almost to the point of having their characters pulverised by falling space debri. I can understand if the text is misleading, incomplete, or somesuch, but crap like this.... just gets my goat.

I've suffered too long under similar antics, and had to pull up so many ability descriptions and force players to read the entire relevant passage, that it just isn't funny any more.

Maybe We should start playing monsters by utilizing a similar "reading" of the rules.
 

scott2978

First Post
The spell in question is actually Siren's Grace from the Spell Compendium, which inconveniently doesn't say that casters don't gain bonus spells like Eagle's Splendor does.
 

Sekhmet

First Post
Lets assume they do get new bonus spell slots.
What does that really mean? What does it mean in the context of the game day?

Slapping on an X of Charisma +2 means most Bards and Sorcs pick up an extra spell slot. Can they equip and unequip it at will to get unlimited spells per day?

The short answer to your question (and my example) is "No".
The long answer is "Yes, with provisions."
Like Wizards and Clerics, Sorcerers and Bards have a period of the day where they "recharge" spent spell slots to be usable during the day. Lets assume that your Bard has 4 level 1 spell slots available to him.
He casts his Charisma buff after "recharging" his spell slots in the morning, effectively netting him a few bonus spell slots that are empty. He has a new maximum, but his current number of spell slots available remains the same. He still only has 4 level 1 spell slots usable, because he started the day with that many.
If he gets his Charisma bonus early on in the day, before his designated "recharge" time, he'll get those bonus spell slots to apply to his maximum, and then he'll have them "recharged" as if they were normally available. When his buff goes away, his bonus spell slots go away, too.

Unless, of course, he has some other way to regain his expended slots, in which case he is likely going to be fine anyway.
 

I agree with Sekhmet. If the sorcerer has the Charisma buff when he "focuses his mind" for 15 minutes after 8 hours of rest, he'll be able to prepare these extra slots. When the buff goes away, these slots will disappear. Note that if the sorcerer casts his buff before preparing his slots for the day (assuming he has slots still available from yesterday) it will count against his daily spell slot limit (p.179 of the PHB).

So the sorcerer casting Sirine's Grace at the beginning of combat won't gain extra slots for the combat.

Simplest solution to your problem: give them +4 Cha capes and be done with it. Sirine's Grace gives an enhancement bonus, as do magical items, so the bonuses don't stack. The players will be happy to have a couple of extra spell slots.

Good luck!

AR
 


Empirate

First Post
Probably a houserule, but I've always ruled you need to have a given bonus active for 24+ hours before it "kicks in", so to speak, for 1/day effects. For example, if your Wizard wants to prepare more spells after buying a Headband of Intellect, he must wear it constantly for 24 hours. After that, the next time he prepares spells, he can prepare more of them due to higher Int and bonus spells.

That means that temporary buffs to [mental stat] never provide bonus spells in my game unless they last longer than 24 hours (in fact, 24 hours plus whatever time it takes to prepare spells plus the time elapsed until the additionally prepared bonus spells are actually used). This precludes most non-permanent solutions from working, where bonus spells are concerned. Note that this way of doing it also precludes Persistent Spell-enhanced buffs from providing bonus spells.

BTW, I rule similarly for Turn Undead attempts and other stuff whose uses/day are based on an ability mod.
 

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