Sorcerer Fix - Continued from "D&D Rules"

[Khaalis]

Man, I agree, nice work Khaalis, but some of us were making alt.sorcerers with customizability in mind two years ago. I'm glad Khaalis "finally" got it right so the rest of us can stop flailing in the dark.
V

Thanks for the glowing comments everyone. Personally I still feel like something isnt quite right. Not sure I can place my finger on it. Maybe it is because I think the powers still need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb by someone other than myself. Most of the abilities are pretty standard and from existing base classes or creatures. Not sure if I feel there are too many options, not enough options, not "unique enough" options. Maybe I am just being too self-critical.

In any event - if anyone has other ideas for Sorcerer Abilities to add to the list throw them in here for consideration.

Thank you again all. I really hope that this work turns out well and that it gets good support here.

 

[fuindordm]

Now now...

Man, I agree, nice work Khaalis, but some of us were making alt.sorcerers with customizability in mind two years ago. I'm glad Khaalis "finally" got it right so the rest of us can stop flailing in the dark.

V

Heh. You must admit, the sorcerer domain systems were a lot less radical than this.

Basically, we were restricting half a socerer's spell selection to a theme chosen by the player, and giving them a couple of minor bonus powers in exchange for the lost versatility. The changes
were minor enough that we could be sure balance wasn't affected, even when we robbed spells from other class lists to fill out the domains.

This version does a lot more to set sorcerers apart, I must admit, and in much more of a Whiz-Bang-Cool! way. I'm not so sure about the game balance though; the minor powers seem OK, while some of the major ones effectively grant the PC an extra utility spell that might not have made it onto their primary list.

Good work, everyone.

--Ben Mathiesen

 

[Buttercup]

Man, I agree, nice work Khaalis, but some of us were making alt.sorcerers with customizability in mind two years ago. I'm glad Khaalis "finally" got it right so the rest of us can stop flailing in the dark.

V

I'm sorry if you thought my comments were offensive, since they certainly weren't intended that way. The link to the work that you have done is broken, so I'm unable to look at it. All the alternative sorcerer builds I have seen, including Monte Cook's, haven't been quite what I was looking for. Perhaps if I had known about yours I would have felt differently, and perhaps if I were able to view it now, I could say nice things about it too.

 

[Buttercup]

Personally I still feel like something isnt quite right. Not sure I can place my finger on it. Maybe it is because I think the powers still need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb by someone other than myself. Most of the abilities are pretty standard and from existing base classes or creatures. Not sure if I feel there are too many options, not enough options, not "unique enough" options.

I must admit that when I offer this sorcerer to my players, I will eliminate some of the options. Some of the bloodlines don't fit in my campaign, and thus some of the special ability options won't work either. Still, I'd rather have a class with too many options than too few. It's a relatively simple thing to take out the Devine Recepticle option, say, than it would be to invent it if I needed it.

The thing is, this is a way of thinking about what a sorcerer is, and does, that hasn't been followed to its logical end before (that I'm aware of). I suppose it would be worth play testing it at several levels and in several different builds to see if it is too powerful. IMO it will be fine, since it really just takes the class from being a one trick pony to actually being useful outside of combat. But play testing is never a bad idea.

 

[Vrylakos]

Dear Buttercup,

I'm sorry if I overreacted. Here's the link to the Sorcer Domain system html page. I'm trying to move my stuff to a new host, so my PDF is down until them, though I can email it to folks who want it.

http://members.tripod.com/vrylakos/classes/sorcerer_domain_system.htm

I just felt like all this work that took place in the past somehow didn't rate. I took your comments in the wrong way.

I'm hoping to revise the Sorcerer Domain system for 3.5, with some improvements. When I actually get to work on this new project, I'll start a thread.

Vrylakos

 

[Stormborn]

Ok. Here are the abilities mentioned in the Sorcerer Ability tables above. They need review and comments if anyone is willing.

Here goes.

Air Ken (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of the Elements (Air) heredity, and can cast 4th level spells and has the Fleetness of the Elements ability, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can speak Auran for free as well as gaining the ability to dart about to and fro, seeming to be in many places at once. The sorcerer receives the Improved Initiative and Dodge feats even if they do not normally meet the pre-requisites.

My concern here is the linking of the ability to speak Auran with other Air elemental traits. It seems the ability to speak the language should be tied to some social interaction with others of the same elemental heritage. Otherwise this ability essentially grants 2 feats, admitedly not powerful ones, but nothing to sneeze at either. Perhaps some single ability to replicate those effects? Say: a bonus to Dex based skills and abilites equal to the Sorcerers Charisma modifier once per day for a number of rounds equal to their level in this class?
Would that do some of the same things you were thinking of? If you were looking for something more permanent, perhaps a bonus to initiatice equal to the Charisma modifier.


Arcane Sense (Su): If the sorcerer has 6 or more ranks in Concentration, they may become naturally attuned to the flow of magical energy in all things around them.

Arcane Sense: The sorcerer can feel magic flow through them as well as sense its presence and flow in all things around them as well. As a result of this deep attunement, the sorcerer’s senses allow them to see as if using detect magic (as the spell) at will. This supernatural ability is activated as a free action and requires full concentration for as many rounds as the sorcerer wishes to attain information (as the spell description).
Arcane Sense Identification: If the sorcerer has 5 ranks or more in Knowledge (Arcana) and the Arcane Sense ability, they can attune their Arcane Senses into an innate ability to read the magical aura in devices as well as see the flow and presence of magic. The sorcerer may identify magical items by studying them using their ability to Detect Magic and combining it with their Knowledge (Arcana) skill. They must spend one hour inspecting the item and testing it. In the process of studying charged items, this process automatically burns one charge, though the energy seeps from the item harmlessly. After one hour, the sorcerer makes a Knowledge (Arcana) check with a DC determined by the table below. If successful, the sorcerer has identified one of the item’s magical properties. If they fail, they immediately activate the item (targeting the sorcerer).

	Item Type	DC	Item Type	DC
	Armor		20	Weapon		20
	Potion		15	Ring		25
	Rod		20	Scroll		15
	Staff		25	Wand		20
	Wondrous Item	25

Improved Magic Sense: If the sorcerer has 6 or more ranks in Spot and has at least a 13+ Wisdom and has the Arcane Sense ability, they may learn to focus and intensify the manifestation of their Arcane Senses to the point that their Arcane Senses becomes so attuned to magic as to allow them to see as if using arcane sight (as the spell) at will. This supernatural ability is activated as a free action and requires full concentration for as many rounds as the sorcerer wishes to attain information (as the spell description).
Arcane True Sight: If the sorcerer has 8 or more ranks in Spot and has at least a 13+ Wisdom and has the Improved Arcane Sense ability, they may learn to focus and intensify the manifestation of their Arcane Senses to the point that their Arcane Senses becomes so attuned to magic as to allow them to see as if using true sight (as the spell) at will. This supernatural ability is always active.

With these I have a question about the skill rank requirments. If the ability is usable at will, why the needed ranks in Concentration or Spot? A Concentration check would only mildly hamper the ability if you want to keep the prereqs. I understand the Knowledge skill is need to actually know what is being seen.


Clarity (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Divine Receptacle heredity, and can cast 7th level spells, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can, with a touch a number of times per day equal to the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier, cut through anything altering the mental capacity of another. This removes insanity, confusion, charm, loss of Intelligence or Wisdom, or other mind-altering effects for one round per sorcerer level. At the end of this time, if the effect on the touched target is permanent or still in effect due to duration, it returns. However, if it is an effect for which a negating saving throw was possible when it first took hold, the touched party receives an additional saving throw at the end of the Clarity’s duration, this time with a bonus equal to the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier. This ability may be used on naturally occurring effects such as drunkenness and exhaustion as well as on magical effects. Natural effects are removed by the use of this ability as no saving throw is required. This does not effect changes in emotional state such as rage or fear or perceptions such as illusions, blindness, etc.

Hmmm...it seems a little complicated. Simplify by making different versions of it? Level 1: For temporary conditions only: touched person gains a new saving throw, add the Sorcerers Charisma modifier to the saving throw to dispell. If the condition did not allow a saving throw, they may make one (DC20) to negate effects, adding the Sorcerers Charisma Modifier. Level 2: The ability now works on permanent conditions, if no saving throw was originally offered the may make one (DC 25).
That may not be the solution you want, depending on your original intent.


Confer Blessing (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Divine Receptacle heritage, and can cast 3rd level spells, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can grant a boon from their deity to another. The target receives 1 temporary hit point per level of the sorcerer, which lasts for 24 hours or until lost. Also, the target receives a +4 morale bonus to saving throws against fear effects for a number of minutes equal to the sorcerer’s level. This ability may be used once per day per sorcerer level.

Is there a spell that would work here? Its always easier in d20 to say: "as if under the effect of Spell X"?

Detect Thoughts (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of Nature (Shapechanger) heredity, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can read the thoughts of others.
Detect Thoughts I: The sorcerer can draw on the power of their heritage and can use detect thoughts (as the spell) a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier at the sorcerer’s class level. The save DC is Charisma based. This may be activated or suppressed as a free action.
Detect Thoughts II: If the sorcerer can cast 4th level spells and has the Detect Thoughts I ability, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can use detect thoughts (as the spell) a number of times per day equal to 3+ their Charisma modifier at the sorcerer’s class level. The save DC is Charisma based. This may be activated or suppressed as a free action.
Detect Thoughts III: If the sorcerer can cast 8th level spells and has the Detect Thoughts II ability, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can use detect thoughts (as the spell) at will at the sorcerer’s class level. The save DC is Charisma based. This may be activated or suppressed as a free action.

Are Shapechangers the only ones who might do this? Seems like Celestials and Infernals and some others might have thought detecting abilites that they could pass on.

Divine Channel (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Divine Receptacle heritage and can cast 2nd level spells they can draw on the force of their deity and learn to channel a fraction of that power into any weapon they use. Any weapon wielded by the sorcerer is considered one of the following dependent upon alignment for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction: good = holy, evil = unholy, neutral may choose either. This does not provide any other bonuses.

Could this be a multilevel ability? Perhaps granting Smite like powers at the 2nd level?



Earth Ken (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of the Elements (Earth) heredity, and can cast 4th level spells and has the Friend of the Earth ability, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can speak Terran for free as well as gaining the ability to harden themselves against blows while taking on a rocky hue to their skin. As a free action, a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier for one round, the sorcerer receives a natural armor bonus equal to their sorcerer level.

See comments above re: language and ability. Perhaps make the extra language a "Racial memory" part of the Heritage package. AC bonuses are good, although a temporary STR bonus might be a possible addition.

Elemental Form (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of the Elements heredity and can cast 8th level spells and has any one of the following abilities: (Fleetness of the Elements, Friend of the Earth, Waterborn, or Energy Resistance), they can gain the ability to turn themselves into a change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental of their heredity type and back once per day. This ability functions like the polymorph spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per sorcerer level, or until they change back. Changing form (to elemental or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. A sorcerer loses their ability to speak while in elemental form unless they can speak the elemental language of their heredity. The sorcerer gains all of the Elemental's Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Spell-like abilities. They also gain the Elemental's feats for as long as they maintain the Elemental Form, but they retain their own creature type (humanoid, in most cases).

What determines the size they can take? Perhaps a scalable system? Start of small and work their way up.

Element Mastery (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of the Elements heritage, and can cast 3rd level spells, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can, three times per day, choose to turn elemental creatures of their opposed element or rebuke those of their own element (not both, chosen on taking the ability) as a cleric of three levels lower than their sorcerer class level.
This might be the one to add the language bonus to.



Familiar (Su): If the sorcerer is from the Arcane Experiment, Child of Nature, or Sorcerous Family heritage, they may choose to summon a familiar. The sorcerer may utilize all of the associated information on familiars.

Again, perhaps Improved Familiar as well.

Ok, I'll take a whack at the rest later.
Hope this helps.

 

[Nightfall]

What is your beef with it? I am seeking constructive criticism.

I realize you are a hard core pimp for S&S's SL but I need constructive criticism to know whether you have a legitamate problem with the design or if you are just of the purist side of the line that thinks there is nothing wrong with the class As-Is.

Mostly the latter and I just don't see the need to make alternates most of the time. I've had no problems playing them or using sorcerers as it stands now.

 

[Khaalis]

Ok, first to answer some of the off-topic material:

Mostly the latter and I just don't see the need to make alternates most of the time. I've had no problems playing them or using sorcerers as it stands now.

And that’s fair. You are more than entitled to your opinion. It does however make me curious to ask one question, and I am not flaming – I’m honestly curious to understand how people think. If you are a purist and prefer works as-is, why are you surfing the Houserules Board, a place designed to mess with the status-quo?

I must admit that when I offer this sorcerer to my players, I will eliminate some of the options. Some of the bloodlines don't fit in my campaign, and thus some of the special ability options won't work either. Still, I'd rather have a class with too many options than too few. It's a relatively simple thing to take out the Devine Recepticle option, say, than it would be to invent it if I needed it.

And this is EXACTLY what I have been trying to develop… something flexible but encompassing. I wanted a class that truly embodies the ideal of the sorcerer as it is presented in the fluff but that is still balanced to the power of the other classes.

Dear Buttercup, I'm sorry if I overreacted. I just felt like all this work that took place in the past somehow didn't rate. I took your comments in the wrong way.
I'm hoping to revise the Sorcerer Domain system for 3.5, with some improvements. When I actually get to work on this new project, I'll start a thread. Vrylakos

I am sorry you took that stance. I always said that I liked your work, but it just wasn’t exactly the feel I was going for. Many people will prefer your way over mine. That is the way of things and its why we have a Houserules Board to begin with. I wanted to take your ideas a step farther – making a more versatile class using the basic ideas of the themed heredity but go with what made more logical sense to me both in the craft mechanic of the class build as well as in theory. However, what I have done I am hoping is lose enough to allow most anything. If you really want a GHOST Sorcerer Heredity you can.

Child of Mystery – Ghost: Ghost sorcerers are the descendant of a magic infusion between a ghost and one of the sorcerer’s long past relatives, or possibly the result of the sorcerer’s mother being possessed during the pregnancy, etc.
Skills:
• Gain Hide and Move Silently as a class skills.
Templates:
• May apply the Ghost Touch Spell Template to their spell-like abilities (Dragon #311).
Special Bonuses:
• Nondescript: The ghost sorcerer is rather nondescript and is thus more able to blend into their surroundings and go unnoticed than most. This grants the sorcerer a +2 racial bonus to Bluff, Disguise, Gather Information and Hide skill checks.
• Chill Touch (Su): The ghost sorcerer may use a ghostly chill touch as the spell, at their Sorcerer class level a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier.
• Bonus Known: The ghost sorcerer gains the Ghostly Spell Path as one bonus spell-like ability per spell level.
0: Ghost Sound..........5: Magic Jar
1: Cause Fear............6: Eyebite
2: Scare...................7: Ethereal Jaunt
3: Gaseous Form........8: Horrid Wilting
4: Fear.....................9: Wail of the Banshee
Thematics:
• Ghost sorcerers become slightly ethereal in appearance, the sound of moans and clanking chains and emanate the feel of a bone chilling cold when they use their spell-like abilities.
Restrictions:
• May never learn any spell-like ability, nor use any item that activates a spell or spell-like ability with the Good or Light descriptor or that belongs to the Good or Sun Domain.
• May not take any Prestige Class or Template that involves racial or heritage abilities unless they are specifically undead oriented. Example: Cannot take the Celestial Template.
• Must be of any Non-Good Alignment.
• May not choose their Ghostly Spell Path as a Spell List Restriction.

Some possible Sorcerer Abilities:
Child of Mystery – Ghost: Abundant Step, Arcane Soul, Flight, Ghost Touch, Incorporeal, Invisibility, Power over Undead, Spirit Guide.

Heh. You must admit, the sorcerer domain systems were a lot less radical than this.
Basically, we were restricting half a socerer's spell selection to a theme chosen by the player, and giving them a couple of minor bonus powers in exchange for the lost versatility. The changes were minor enough that we could be sure balance wasn't affected, even when we robbed spells from other class lists to fill out the domains.
This version does a lot more to set sorcerers apart, I must admit, and in much more of a Whiz-Bang-Cool! way. I'm not so sure about the game balance though; the minor powers seem OK, while some of the major ones effectively grant the PC an extra utility spell that might not have made it onto their primary list.
Good work, everyone.
--Ben Mathiesen

First – Thanks for the compliment
Second – Yes this version is radical, and that is the point. I am personally tired of the core system and purists being too afraid of “radical” and thus producing boring, bland and cookie cutter classes. The Ranger and Monk were both steps in the right direction. They went from classes that fit one cookie cutter view of the class and at least went to a Class Option system, allowing for 2 paths for the classes to follow. In the system I am working on, the sorcerer being a prime example, is one that allows for a much wider range of archetypes without the need for customizing the class on the fly every time you want to change the archetypes available to the class. The sorcerer is supposed to be a Unique class with unique abilities, not merely a Wizard that casts differently. The sorcerer should be as to the wizard, as the druid is to the cleric, or the ranger is to the fighter. The basic premise is the same – its an arcane spellhurler. The rest of the class should share nothing in common.

Dragon and the zillion 3rd party books have show dozens of ways to customize the core classes to fit an archetype. Many just simply write new base classes that are variants of the original classes to fill a new nitch like an urban ranger or druid. However – why cant the core class just be made to be flexible to start with? Why do all rogues get Sneak Attack and Trap Sense? What if I want to make a professional beggar or charlatan? There are much better abilities to be used for this archetype and no logical reason a charlatan would be proficient in traps and sneak attacks.

As for the class powers… this is why I am seeking constructive criticism on the power ranges for the class. Keep in mind that there is little out of the stretch of existing classes, except for some of the more purely racial abilities like Flight and Invisibility.

Again – all constructive help on balancing the abilities is appreciated.


On a side note – I also think I have placed my finger on what is still feeling unfinished… SPELLS

While currently I use the Forgotten Heroes – Sorcerer system to ALLOW for restricted spell lists, this does not sit well with me. I want the Sorcerer spell list more restricted. The question is how to do this? Currently the spell list is limited by removing any spell with a Material Component or Focus of a value higher than 1gp, and by Heredity restrictions such as banning spells of a specific descriptor or domain list. I still do not feel that this limits the spell lists enough.

There should be SOME way of denoting what is and isn’t an appropriate sorcerer spell. This is what I think I need the most help determining. Does anyone have any ideas on how to limit the spell lists? Should I designate specific themes? Or should I modify the FH-S system to FORCE a player into choosing small thematic spell lists?

 

[Khaalis]

Now for some of the specific mech material:

Here goes.

Air Ken (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of the Elements (Air) heredity, and can cast 4th level spells and has the Fleetness of the Elements ability, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can speak Auran for free as well as gaining the ability to dart about to and fro, seeming to be in many places at once. The sorcerer receives the Improved Initiative and Dodge feats even if they do not normally meet the pre-requisites.

My concern here is the linking of the ability to speak Auran with other Air elemental traits. It seems the ability to speak the language should be tied to some social interaction with others of the same elemental heritage. Otherwise this ability essentially grants 2 feats, admitedly not powerful ones, but nothing to sneeze at either. Perhaps some single ability to replicate those effects? Say: a bonus to Dex based skills and abilites equal to the Sorcerers Charisma modifier once per day for a number of rounds equal to their level in this class?
Would that do some of the same things you were thinking of? If you were looking for something more permanent, perhaps a bonus to initiatice equal to the Charisma modifier.

Earth Ken (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of the Elements (Earth) heredity, and can cast 4th level spells and has the Friend of the Earth ability, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can speak Terran for free as well as gaining the ability to harden themselves against blows while taking on a rocky hue to their skin. As a free action, a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier for one round, the sorcerer receives a natural armor bonus equal to their sorcerer level.

See comments above re: language and ability. Perhaps make the extra language a "Racial memory" part of the Heritage package. AC bonuses are good, although a temporary STR bonus might be a possible addition.

All of the “{Element} Ken” abilities are OGL source abilities from Green Ronin’s The Book of the Righteous. Personally I feel that most of Green Ronin’s works are the best of the 3rd party work on the shelves. As for the specifics of the Air ability, I do not necessarily have a problem with granting languages. In fact I had been thinking of granting free languages to the other heredities as well. I could however just as easily give No heredity bonus languages. In my opinion languages are such a trifling small ability that they don’t really register. However, for design purposes it should be uniform. Either all get, or none get. If you think they should be added to the base Package – that is cool and works well with me and works with all of the heredities. Although, should I add it as a free language? Or should I simply add it as an addition to their Bonus Language selection and make them pay to take it?

As for the Air granted feats you gain:
• +1 dodge bonus to AC against one target per round
• +4 bonus to initiative.

As for your Air suggestions:
• I am not sure how I feel about the addition of a Charisma modifier bonus to Dexterity skills. That just pushes the realm of suspended disbelief a bit too far. That and the sorcerer really doesn’t have any Dexterity based skills to get bonuses on.
• As for the Charisma bonus to Initiative – this could become more powerful than the Improved Initiative feat – especially with power gamers who will have a minimum 20 Charisma (+5 initiative). Also the idea of Charisma affecting initiative doesn’t sit well, especially when the “simple” answer is to just grant the feat.

A way to limit the impact of the Air ability but to give the same bonus would be to say the Sorcerer simply gains a racial bonus of +1 to AC and +4 to initiative, thus removing the ability to later take any feat that stacks off of dodge and improved initiative – but I think this is more damaging than helpful.

As for your Earth suggestion: Would you grant the Strength bonus as a part of the AC bonus, or as something they could activate separately from the AC?

Arcane Sense (Su): If the sorcerer has 6 or more ranks in Concentration, they may become naturally attuned to the flow of magical energy in all things around them.
{snippage}
With these I have a question about the skill rank requirments. If the ability is usable at will, why the needed ranks in Concentration or Spot? A Concentration check would only mildly hamper the ability if you want to keep the prereqs. I understand the Knowledge skill is need to actually know what is being seen.

The skill ranks are a way of restricting access to the ability and is a pretty common theme in my versatile class builds. It shows that the character must spend time honing themselves in a related area before they can attain the use of the listed ability. Just as a feat has prerequisite, class abilities should/could have them as well.
• For the base ability, it is one that is based on the use of Concentration (detect magic must be concentrated upon to use and is more of a “sense” ability than a “vision” ability). Thus to limit every sorcerer from picking up the skill at 1st level we limit it to those that have honed their skills in Concentration. To limit it to those of 3rd level and above determines the ranks (level+3).
• For Identification, you are correct. Knowledge (Arcana) is a necessity to identify magic items.
• For Improved, we want to limit the access to this even more. Arcane Sight is a 3rd level spell, so we do not want this to be able to be used “at will” easily. You should have to work for this ability, thus as it is a visual spell, Spot makes a good prerequisite. To make it even more difficult we force the sorcerer to have an above average secondary stat (same as many feats). Since Spot is a cross class skill, the Sorcerer must be a minimum of 9th level to acquire 6 ranks in the skill. On a similar note true sight would require a minimum of 13th level (these minimums do not count multiclassing however which has its own associated costs and is thus balanced).

Does that make sense?

Clarity (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Divine Receptacle heredity, and can cast 7th level spells, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can, with a touch a number of times per day equal to the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier, cut through anything altering the mental capacity of another. This removes insanity, confusion, charm, loss of Intelligence or Wisdom, or other mind-altering effects for one round per sorcerer level. At the end of this time, if the effect on the touched target is permanent or still in effect due to duration, it returns. However, if it is an effect for which a negating saving throw was possible when it first took hold, the touched party receives an additional saving throw at the end of the Clarity’s duration, this time with a bonus equal to the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier. This ability may be used on naturally occurring effects such as drunkenness and exhaustion as well as on magical effects. Natural effects are removed by the use of this ability as no saving throw is required. This does not effect changes in emotional state such as rage or fear or perceptions such as illusions, blindness, etc.

Hmmm...it seems a little complicated. Simplify by making different versions of it? Level 1: For temporary conditions only: touched person gains a new saving throw, add the Sorcerers Charisma modifier to the saving throw to dispell. If the condition did not allow a saving throw, they may make one (DC20) to negate effects, adding the Sorcerers Charisma Modifier. Level 2: The ability now works on permanent conditions, if no saving throw was originally offered the may make one (DC 25).
That may not be the solution you want, depending on your original intent.

Again, this ability is an OGL source ability from Green Ronin’s The Book of the Righteous. No changes to their version except the prerequisites and basing uses on Charisma. I don’t think its too complex an ability as written, but I am liking the idea of splitting it into two levels. Your suggestions are interesting, but they don’t take into account the suppression of the effect. You suggest simply allowing a second saving throw. Perhaps the answer would be thus.

Clarity (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Divine Receptacle heredity, and can cast 4th level spells, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can with a touch cut through anything altering the mental capacity of another.
Clarity I: The sorcerer can, with a touch a number of times per day equal to the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier, cut through any temporary effect (those with a duration) altering the mental capacity of another. This removes insanity, confusion, charm, loss of Intelligence or Wisdom, or other mind-altering effects. If it is an effect for which a negating saving throw is allowed, the touched party receives an new saving throw, this time with a bonus equal to the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier. This ability may be used on naturally occurring effects such as drunkenness and exhaustion as well as on magical effects. Natural effects are automatically removed by the use of this ability as no saving throw is required. This does not effect changes in emotional state such as rage or fear or perceptions such as illusions, blindness, etc.
Clarity II: If the sorcerer is of the Divine Receptacle heredity, and can cast 7th level spells, they can now cut through any effect altering the mental capacity of another including those with no set duration, extremel long durations, or permanent. This removes all such mind-altering effects for one round per sorcerer level. At the end of this time, if the effect on the touched target is permanent or still in effect due to an extensive duration, it returns. However, if it is an effect for which a negating saving throw was possible when it first took hold, the touched party receives an additional saving throw at the end of the Clarity’s duration, this time with a bonus equal to the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier. This ability may be used on naturally occurring effects such as drunkenness and exhaustion as well as on magical effects. Natural effects are removed by the use of this ability as no saving throw is required. This does not effect changes in emotional state such as rage or fear or perceptions such as illusions, blindness, etc.

Confer Blessing (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Divine Receptacle heritage, and can cast 3rd level spells, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can grant a boon from their deity to another. The target receives 1 temporary hit point per level of the sorcerer, which lasts for 24 hours or until lost. Also, the target receives a +4 morale bonus to saving throws against fear effects for a number of minutes equal to the sorcerer’s level. This ability may be used once per day per sorcerer level.

Is there a spell that would work here? Its always easier in d20 to say: "as if under the effect of Spell X"?

I see a theme with the Ronin abilities…
This ability is also an OGL source ability from Green Ronin’s The Book of the Righteous. As far as I know there is no spell that grants a similar effect. The closest would be aid granting +1 to attack and saves and +1d8+Level in temp hp and remove fear which gives the +4 fear save bonus to one target +1 target/level. This power is a watered down combination of the 2 spell effects.
• No attack bonus or general save bonus
• Only Level in temp hit points (lose the added 1d8)
• Remove fear effect on only the single target instead of a vast number of targets

Detect Thoughts (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of Magic (Shapechanger) heredity, they can draw on the power of their heritage and can read the thoughts of others.
{snippage}
Are Shapechangers the only ones who might do this? Seems like Celestials and Infernals and some others might have thought detecting abilites that they could pass on.

Nope. Took this direct form the Monster Manual. Of the shapechangers even – this is unique to the Doppelganger. The outsiders do not gain this. Most celestials gain Tongues and Fiends (Demon and Devil) gain Telepathy.

Divine Channel (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Divine Receptacle heritage and can cast 2nd level spells they can draw on the force of their deity and learn to channel a fraction of that power into any weapon they use. Any weapon wielded by the sorcerer is considered one of the following dependent upon alignment for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction: good = holy, evil = unholy, neutral may choose either. This does not provide any other bonuses.

Could this be a multilevel ability? Perhaps granting Smite like powers at the 2nd level?

Divine Channel is based on the ”Ki” ability from the Monk. I thought about a Paladin’s Smite ability but it is actually much more powerful and much more Melee class oriented. Smite grants a melee attack bonus equal to Charisma modifier (likely +4) and bonus melee damaged equal to class level. That’s a pretty hefty melee combat bonus which really doesn’t fit the sorcerer. This ability simply allows the sorcerer to overcome one not-so-common Damage Resistance modifier related more to their magical orientation.

Elemental Form (Su): If the sorcerer is of the Child of the Elements heredity and can cast 8th level spells and has any one of the following abilities: (Fleetness of the Elements, Friend of the Earth, Waterborn, or Energy Resistance), they can gain the ability to turn themselves into a change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental of their heredity type and back once per day. This ability functions like the polymorph spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per sorcerer level, or until they change back. Changing form (to elemental or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. A sorcerer loses their ability to speak while in elemental form unless they can speak the elemental language of their heredity. The sorcerer gains all of the Elemental's Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Spell-like abilities. They also gain the Elemental's feats for as long as they maintain the Elemental Form, but they retain their own creature type (humanoid, in most cases).

What determines the size they can take? Perhaps a scalable system? Start of small and work their way up.

I thought about this, but I based the ability on the Druid’s Wild Shape. When the Druid gets this ability they can change into a Small, Medium or Large elemental (their choice). At 20th level the druid can choose a Huge elemental. Thus I used the standard mechanic for the ability that already existed and granted it to the sorcerer when they can cast 8th level spells but with no option to upgrade to a Huge elemental. The elemental form (small-large) is actually not that powerful an ability at 16th level so I didn’t really see it as necessary to make the sorcerer burn multiple abilities on it.

Familiar (Su): If the sorcerer is from the Arcane Experiment, Child of Nature, or Sorcerous Family heritage, they may choose to summon a familiar. The sorcerer may utilize all of the associated information on familiars.

Again, perhaps Improved Familiar as well.

As I mentioned in my previous post on this, I think that this falls under the Bonus Feat ability. If the sorcerer already has access to a familiar they can choose any of the dozen or so "Improved Familiar" style feats that are out there (up to the DM obviously) but at the very least the Improved Familiar feat from the DMG. Do you think any other ability needs to be covered?


Thanks!! Looking forward to your responses and further comments.

 

[Buttercup]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vrylakos
Dear Buttercup, I'm sorry if I overreacted. I just felt like all this work that took place in the past somehow didn't rate. I took your comments in the wrong way.
I'm hoping to revise the Sorcerer Domain system for 3.5, with some improvements. When I actually get to work on this new project, I'll start a thread. Vrylakos​

I am sorry you took that stance. I always said that I liked your work, but it just wasn’t exactly the feel I was going for. Many people will prefer your way over mine. That is the way of things and its why we have a Houserules Board to begin with. I wanted to take your ideas a step farther – making a more versatile class using the basic ideas of the themed heredity but go with what made more logical sense to me both in the craft mechanic of the class build as well as in theory. However, what I have done I am hoping is lose enough to allow most anything. If you really want a GHOST Sorcerer Heredity you can.

Ok, Vrylakos, I've looked at your work. I really like the domain idea, and the idea of picking 2 spells of any level instead of following the standard chart for spells known. As others have said, yours is a far less radical step away from the official sorcerer build. Khaalis's sorcerer may well be overpowered at higher levels, which is why I said above that play testing would be a good idea. I think that for me, Khaalis's build is more in keeping with the feeling that I've had about sorcerers, but that's a matter of taste. I am by no means as experienced a judge as nearly everyone else around here.