sorceror/wizard variant(yes it has been done to death)

[Nellisir]

some thoughts nelliser, one, dispel magic can still be used to counterspell, two, you expect a man with no formal training in magic to learn the complicated procceses behind casting even the simplest spells? would you simply be appeased if i changed the antimagic power to include "you may counterspell as a wizard may"?

Well, don't get me wrong: you don't have to appease me. My primary concern is one of simplicity. Right now it looks like you've got a good concept (spells are innate), but the mechanical execution is complex. That's partially an artifact of the system, but you also have to look at whether the concept really needs that complexity to work. Making sorcerer spells spell-like abilities sets up a parallel and nearly identical system of spellcasting to that of the standard wizard, which isn't particularly efficient.

Second, what you think of how spells are learned and cast is one of your assumptions that might not hold true for other people. Sorcerers and wizards might not cast spells the same way. Maybe sorcerers cast spells in Hebrew, and wizards cast in Latin. Maybe wizards have to spend all that time studying to learn how to mimic the complicated processes sorcerers automatically know - maybe sorcerers are "magic-savants", who are able to see a spell and automatically understand how to cast it. Maybe the words and gestures are simple, and the real magic is simply "in the blood" - wizards have a little, sorcerers have a lot. In other words, I don't have to justifiy how a person with no formal training masters complex spell formula because I don't assume a person needs complex spell formula to cast a spell.

 

[bellman]

counter-points nellisir.

1. please explain to me how this is complex, because i don't understand you. and i don't see SLAs being similar to spells.

2. i based this off the stereotypical wizards and sorcerors as i see them. we all now what the stereotypical wizard is, he's the man who was educated from a young age to learn how to take a piece of reality, rip it apart, and put it back as he sees fit, and i see that as being very complex to learn, because if it wasn't, then there would be a lot more wizards. the sorceror is according to the flavor text, someone who at a certain age, learned he could control magic, just as easily as we an breathe. and i always saw the incantations as some fictional language, that was created by the first gods, along with the weave, the weave being created to hold the universe together so that they didn't have to bother and could focus on other things, and the incantations to help them control it. thats just how i see it.

3. you are entitled to your opinions. in fact, the forum was created for that purpose. this variant was created so others could gain ideas from it. if you like the idea, the why don't you help me expand it?

 

[Nellisir]

1. please explain to me how this is complex, because i don't understand you. and i don't see SLAs being similar to spells.

Creating a second set of metamagic feats, that are identical to the first set except they affect spell-like abilities instead of spells, adds complexity.

The effect of a SLA is identical to the effect of a spell. If a sorcerer and wizard both cast magic missile, they both have the same effect. Ditto fireball. Ditto stone to flesh. Ditto light. Etc and so forth. If they weren't similar, you'd have to write up fifty pages of spell-like ability descriptions.

2. i based this off the stereotypical wizards and sorcerors as i see them. we all now what the stereotypical wizard is, he's the man who was educated from a young age to learn how to take a piece of reality, rip it apart, and put it back as he sees fit, and i see that as being very complex to learn, because if it wasn't, then there would be a lot more wizards. the sorceror is according to the flavor text, someone who at a certain age, learned he could control magic, just as easily as we an breathe. and i always saw the incantations as some fictional language, that was created by the first gods, along with the weave, the weave being created to hold the universe together so that they didn't have to bother and could focus on other things, and the incantations to help them control it. thats just how i see it.

OK, that's fine. But those are assumptions that other people might not hold, so you're better off explaining them and not assuming that everyone thinks just like you. The "weave" is Forgotten Realms terminology; many people don't use the weave at all in their campaign world.

3. you are entitled to your opinions. in fact, the forum was created for that purpose. this variant was created so others could gain ideas from it. if you like the idea, the why don't you help me expand it?

Frankly, I'm not quite sure what to say. You asked for feedback; I'm giving you some. I've already combined the 3e sorcerer & wizard into one class in my game, so I haven't got any need or interest in writing a new sorcerer, but I'm willing to help other people improve theirs.

I'm pretty certain we've reached the end of the road here, though, so good luck and keep working on it!

 

[Quartz]

Who'd want to be a Sorcerer? Really, you're completely nerfing the class. SR equal to Charisma mod? What use is that at 20th level?

 

[Hawken]

I'm only here because there's no other activity in this forum, but I'll take a look:

Balanced? No.

Should you change it? Yes.

First, why that stuff about the wizard anyway? And for 20th level that's pretty weak stuff. Spellbooks have never encumbered wizards to my knowledge, even back in the glory days of 1e where I've known wizards with a 5 str! As for summoning them, again, for 20th level, that's kind of lame. If a 1st level wizard can summon a monster from another part of the world, or another plane (Summon Monster), calling his spellbook back to him shouldn't be much different. I suppose nobody has bothered to create that spell or ability because most DMs aren't going to screw with a wizard's book unless there's a scene in an adventure where they don't want them casting spells.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind the change to SLA from spells. To what end? Nor do I understand why the sorcerer radiates magic where no other spellcaster does. Even other races that have SLAs (such as Drow) do not radiate magic when someone is detecting.

I think the appearance change is too much. You start getting more than one sorcerer in the same room and its like, "Oh, you're well built and muscular too. You must be focused in Abjuration also!" What's the point?

Others have hit on the counterspelling, so I'm not going to say anything there.

Why can't they create magic items? According to your change, sorcerers are now magical beings, why couldn't they pour some of that power into an item?

What "magical affinity" are they losing? I don't remember seeing anything like that in the PHB.

Why do they get intimidate now? How do they suddenly know how to be scary and unnerving?

I get that you don't want them using components (of 10gp or less value), but why do they HAVE to have a focus? If they don't even use spells anymore what is a focus going to do? Also, you may not realize this, but a focus cripples them if they cannot cast their spells without it. A fighter can always get a new sword, wizards can get spell mastery, rogue's can sneak attack with anything, but if you make this sorcerer have to have a focus to cast their spells, once that focus is gone, they are effectively helpless and can no longer contribute tp (or have fun with) the game.

Also, why do they HAVE to have domains? Why can't a sorcerer be 'domain-less' or just not have an area of specialty? You should offer this as an option instead of forcing players that want this class to choose something they don't like or like less than other options.

If you are going to do this domain stuff, you need to better define the abilities. You also need to make them worth having. Poor Fly speed at 1/2 land speed is crap and pretty much only useful to keep someone from falling off a cliff or down a pit. I'm sure it may be helpful in other areas, but someone just looking at that isn't going to want that power.

The SR thing for anti-magic: That's a pretty damn big power. But SR of 5 or so isn't even going to protect you from a 1st level wizard. A decent alternative would be to give them SR against a spell or magical effect a number of times per day equal to their Cha modifiier where SR equals 10 + character level.

If someone specializes in conjuration, why can they only summon food and water? Admittedly useful in non-combat settings, but a few ranks in Survival and you're good to go.

Spell Rage? What's that? It's not core. Anything not core, you need to define because even if it is in another supplement, maybe you've got a different idea of what this is.

The illusion power, redo it. That is an automatic rescue against any single attack which is damn powerful. Think of the bad guy having that and how much damage he could do to the party if he could have that power! And why the restriction that it only works on attacks that reduce below 1hp. I'd be more concerned about the hit that drops me from 80hp to 25hp rather than the one that takes me from 12hp to 0hp. If they can avoid one attack, it should be any attack they want.

Fire: Kind of convoluted. Just give them the Fire subtype a number of times per day or maybe extra fire damage on a spell or something.

I'm not going to go into the others. You've got some decent ideas, but you've got to put some more time into this. All the special powers need to be kind of balanced (in relation to other granted powers), and they should be something that a PC would want or find interesting.

 

[Megahedron]

It blatantly says in a 10x10 area. Also, the evoker is setting up to be rigged .