Sorcerors in d&d

[hopeless]

Reg: Warlocks

No apparently it allows them to see all forms of darkness which I thought only Shadowdancers could do.
I have more of agrudge about Favoured Souls than Warlocks, I just find them silly because they've been portrayed as little more than a variant type of chaotic sorceror and I really think they deserve better than that.
As for favoured souls or the divine equivalent of a sorceror well thats one headache I rather forgo.

 

[hopeless]

Hoping this is understandable

Seriously, I recommend retiring the character and starting again. That restriction is just evil.

Personally I thought the second player chose it because he noticed I was playing a multi-class version, but he roleplayed well the only bit I queried about was why he bothered with the Maximise Spell but that’s just me.

Okay, starting to get a bit worried about this DM now...

The Halfling is involved in a campaign played by a different dm this one is much better at Call of Cthulhu and tried to add bits of that to his Greyhawk campaign using the Book of Vile Darkness.

Energy Substitution would probably have been a better choice. In general, Metamagic feats are more useful for high-level casters than low. However, since you mention it below, why didn't you take Eschew Materials?

This was 3.0 and under its rules you need any metamagic feat before being able to select Eschew Material otherwise I would have risked selecting it at 1st level or even 3rd had that restriction not been in place.

Okay, remember I said I was worried about that DM?
Well, firstly, mixing editions is a really bad idea. What was 'balanced' in 2nd Edition just isn't under 3.x, and vice versa. Heck, even mixing 3.0 and 3.5 can have unexpected consequences. So, that 2nd Ed Flame Strike is a red warning sign, for me.

That was just a sample, there were many more and after he killed off my cleric I gave it up for a little over a month only returning because I really preferred the Greyhawk campaign to the Faerun. (PS: When my cleric finally got to use Flame Strike the rules reverted to 3.0)

What material component problem? Either take the Eschew Materials feat or, failing that, buys a Spell Component Pouch. It's in the PHB, costs 5 gp, and essentially solves that problem in most cases (and the ones that wouldn't be covered aren't helped by EM).

Bought the Spell Component Pouch, just didn’t want to be bogged down with gathering spell components.

Yes, in 3.0 Shield is a very nice spell. The mage armour components are included in the SPC, though.

Unfortunately my experiences in the Faerun campaign led me to expect to be harried about spell components in all campaigns regardless if the dm.

Um, I thought the 3.0 Identify only gave the basic function of the item? Don't you need Analyse Dweomer (or some such) to get the full story?
That was one of the changes between 3.0 and 3.5 - the 3.5 Identify gives all powers of a single item, instead of a single power of each of many items.
Oh, and I suspect your Extended Detect Magic wouldn't help, either.

Its being run under 3.0 rules although I did design the Halfling under 3.5 (Mongoose Pocket Handbook) and only found out about Dancing Lights effects under 3.0 rules since I chose it as a component less version of a Light spell. Didn’t know about Analyse Dweomer though.

I'm guessing, but I don't think that's what he meant.

I assumed he meant the 3.5 rules for swapping spells for Sorcerors when they reach 4th level or so, which don’t apply under 3.0 rules which is why I messed around with the variant rules in the Book of Familiars.

Regarding Identify:

So you don’t crush the pearl to add to the cup of fine wine, which I stirred by the owl feather before the mixture is drunk then?

Actually I was more worried about the Paladin’s player who’s the usual dm for the Faerun campaign and I really don’t want to lumber you with the other problems I had in his game…

To be honest, I most certainly would not play a sorcerer under this DM, and I might well simply not play under this DM at all. If your posts have been an accurate sample of the campaigns, I suspect I would have no fun in such a game. I'm just saying...

Please don’t make me tell you what he did in the Greyhawk campaign, I’ve already tried that twice since he literally vilified Paladins’ as far as I’m concerned and I’ve told him to his face that while he’s great at roleplaying a fanatic I can never run a Paladin again after witnessing what he did. And for the record I have no idea how the DM of Greyhawk campaign can still claim he didn’t violate his Paladin’s code because he darn well broke a few under 1st edition rules!

That's your argument against Warlocks? That they can see through their own magical darkness? Odd

Had a bad reaction when another table ran one and made claims that made me wonder if I was hallucinating especially as he claimed he could see through all forms of darkness which is ridiculous as it would make the class better off as a prestige class which is why I mentioned the Shadowdancer.

 

[Felix]

Hopeless,

I don't want to sound like I'm harping, but using the Quote feature of the messageboards will make reading your posts much easier for the rest of us.

If you're using the Quick reply at the bottom of the screen, it's the icon on the far right that looks like a word bubble; it's right next to the Underline icon.

You can also type it in yourself by writing: "{Quote=Felix}Blah blah blah{/Quote}"

Change all the "{" brackets to square brackets "[", and you'll get something like this:

Blah blah blah

That will make it much easier to distinguish between you quoting other people's posts and your replies to them. Anyways, back to the thread...

 

[delericho]

I'm having real trouble reading your posts. As Felix said, try to use the 'Quote' feature, please?

The Halfling is involved in a campaign played by a different dm this one is much better at Call of Cthulhu and tried to add bits of that to his Greyhawk campaign using the Book of Vile Darkness.

Nothing wrong with Cthulhu in D&D. You just have to know what you're doing

This was 3.0 and under its rules you need any metamagic feat before being able to select Eschew Material otherwise I would have risked selecting it at 1st level or even 3rd had that restriction not been in place.

That's what I get for working from memory! It's been a long time since I read "Tome & Blood". Sorry.

That was just a sample, there were many more and after he killed off my cleric I gave it up for a little over a month only returning because I really preferred the Greyhawk campaign to the Faerun. (PS: When my cleric finally got to use Flame Strike the rules reverted to 3.0)

Yeah, I've seen that before. There is, sadly, a segment of the DMing population who have done it for years, have run games right back to the 1st Edition, and who have somehow managed to get 'stuck'. In my case, the giveaway was a DM who insisted that Clerics of Lesser Gods couldn't gain spells above 5th level. I tried explaining that that rule had been eliminated for game balance reasons, and that anyway even a 9th level spell is trivial for any god worth the title, but no dice.

Other than sympathising, and suggesting you find a better game, I've got no suggestions.

Bought the Spell Component Pouch, just didn’t want to be bogged down with gathering spell components.

The pouch should automatically contain all the components you need, except in the case of expensive components. The spell lists in the PHB indicated (with a little 'M' those spells with components that are not in the pouch). Of course, your DM may insist you do the search... which would just suck.

Unfortunately my experiences in the Faerun campaign led me to expect to be harried about spell components in all campaigns regardless if the dm.

If you're ever in Scotland, look me up. I'll then proceed to demonstate that that is not the case.

Didn’t know about Analyse Dweomer though.

I might be wrong about that. Again, I was working from memory.

I'm guessing, but I don't think that's what he meant.

So you don’t crush the pearl to add to the cup of fine wine, which I stirred by the owl feather before the mixture is drunk then?

I have a feeling that that's the old 1st/2nd edition way of doing it. IIRC, in 3.0 you just need a 100 gp pearl. I'm 99% sure that that's the case in 3.5. But, again, I minimise the role of spell components in my game, so in effect the spell would boil down to 'go to town, go to market, cross 100 gp off sheet'. My PCs have more important things to worry about than the minutae of finding just the right type of feathers.

Actually I was more worried about the Paladin’s player who’s the usual dm for the Faerun campaign and I really don’t want to lumber you with the other problems I had in his game…

Please don’t make me tell you what he did in the Greyhawk campaign, I’ve already tried that twice since he literally vilified Paladins’ as far as I’m concerned and I’ve told him to his face that while he’s great at roleplaying a fanatic I can never run a Paladin again after witnessing what he did. And for the record I have no idea how the DM of Greyhawk campaign can still claim he didn’t violate his Paladin’s code because he darn well broke a few under 1st edition rules!

Yeah, I remember those threads. You've had a rough time.

Had a bad reaction when another table ran one and made claims that made me wonder if I was hallucinating especially as he claimed he could see through all forms of darkness which is ridiculous as it would make the class better off as a prestige class which is why I mentioned the Shadowdancer.

As a rule, I take claims that sound ridiculous with a pinch of salt. I've found that very often they are exaggerated, either by players who want to pull a fast one over the DM, by players who in their excitement have misread the rules, or by DMs who have developed a knee-jerk 'it's broken!' reaction. There are some things in WotC books that genuinely are broken, and some more that are broken when put together in the right combination. However, on the whole, the game and it's supplements tend to be reasonably balanced.

However, I was joking, more or less

 

[billd91]

It sounds to me like you're kind of being hosed by the DM.

I have no qualms with taking either read magic or identify as a sorcerer though. Even though sorcerers aren't supposed to need scrolls to learn spells, they can still use scrolls and having the spell can be simply useful.
And I can see some benefit being able to cast Identify as well though, quite frankly, people are right that it's only a little less efficient to buy the scrolls since the material component of casting it yourself will cost 100 gp compared to the 125 gp cost of the scroll. If you don't feel a compelling reason to take a different 1st level spell, you probably won't feel the pinch from taking Identify.

Regarding energy substitution, it's as inappropriate a feat as eschew materials under 3.0. Both require previous metamagic feats. I suppose Extend Spell gets you in the direction of Persistent Spell, which under 3.0 is pretty nice. But you have to make sure you have good stuff to cast with it (persistent shield, mage armor, eagle's splendor, etc). It is costly though, so whether or not it's worth it is up to you.
The sorcerer in the game I'm running (currently in 3.5 rules but we started under 3.0) took silent spell and still spell. He was able to cast some important spells while restrained and under guard from a goblin (the goblin wasn't savvy enough to know that his look of concentration, the only outward sign, was spell-casting). Not too shabby.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Material components are 5 gp for all of them but specific expensive ones. There's no reason to steer away from them in D&D, since they've been nerfed to the point of essentially not existing, 99.9 percent of the time.

Color Spray is easily one of the best 1st level spells out there. It's not quite as good as Magic Missile, which I regard as the extreme far end of 1st level power, but it's close.

 

[hopeless]

Reg: Sorcerors

"

Hopeless, I don't want to sound like I'm harping, but using the Quote feature of the messageboards will make reading your posts much easier for the rest of us.If you're using the Quick reply at the bottom of the screen, it's the icon on the far right that looks like a word bubble; it's right next to the Underline icon.You can also type it in yourself by writing: "{Quote=Felix}Blah blah blah{/Quote}"Change all the "{" brackets to square brackets "[", and you'll get something like this
Like that?
Apologies if this reply seems strange, but I never knew anything about that and assumed copying previous remarks before trying to answer them would be enough (I also tried to highlight it as both bold and italic) but that didn't seem to work.
So lets see if this works

 

[glass]

"

Hopeless, I don't want to sound like I'm harping, but using the Quote feature of the messageboards will make reading your posts much easier for the rest of us.If you're using the Quick reply at the bottom of the screen, it's the icon on the far right that looks like a word bubble; it's right next to the Underline icon.You can also type it in yourself by writing: "{Quote=Felix}Blah blah blah{/Quote}"Change all the "{" brackets to square brackets "[", and you'll get something like this

Like that? So lets see if this works

You need a closing [/QUOTE] tag to match the opening one (I added one for you in the nested quote in my post).


glass.

 

[delericho]

Never mind... Glass beat me to it.

 

[hopeless]

Sorcerors

Sorry messed that one up better get more practice first before trying it any further.
Anyway I have no problems with Call of Cthulhu but if you're going to run d&d with rules from the book of vile darkness I'd rather he'd remember this isn't Call of Cthulhu since if he really wanted to run that kind of game, I believe Midnight would be more appropriate, but he no plans to run the next game since he wants to run Conan, Cowboys, d20 apocalypse and a d20 space opera before even considering running the next part of Greyhawk.

If I could find another game I'd probably even consider giving up d&d to run gurps instead, but as I said I really run to run that sorceror again and the fact the best player in that d&d game was the Paladin player's son who ran a half orc druid.

In regards to Warlocks, I have more of a problem with Favoured Souls since they're supposed to be the divine equivalent of sorcerors and that leaves me baffled as I've read a few threads about how the sorceror is suposedly broke and needs a prestige class to recover.
Personally increasing its hd to d6 and giving them option of 3 bonus class skills based on their sorceror's style would have been more encouraging than adding bluff and removing scry from the skill list for everyone.
Most of that was from those threads regarding how to make the sorceror a true character class, but I found whilst running my halfling sorceror that the only problem I had was that halflings are considered kleptomaniacs for some reason (Favoured Class: Rogue).
I suppose they thought they were designing kender I suppose but thats a tale for another thread.
As for those 3 bonus class skills, it was suggested Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate, but being able to select your own 3 class skills might make the sorceror more interesting since it would allow a little variety between the sorcerors in addition to making them less dependent on wizards (Sorry had to be said, just in case a would be dm reads this and doesn't get the hint).

Regarding silent and still spell feats, yes they are interesting, but I got mesmerised by the Chain spell feat and seriously wondered about taking it at 6th even though it would only work on 0th level spells until she reached 8th (Disrupt Undead, encouraged by being told he was using the Book of Vile Darkness and the fact its one of the only Necromantic spells he says doesn't promote corruption). I can just see the character being bound and gagged, but took Extend spell feat because I could see it becoming very useful and wanted to leave something to help further my halflings tendencies as her stealthy habits merit obtaining some more metamagic feats but without alerting her party members in particular one who has already stated he was going to pull a twist in his character's tendencies and by that I suspected he would either become a blackguard or a cleric since his need to be the top dog meant at the cost of everyone else playing... but only time will tell.

No offense last time I checked Colour Spray requires some fine sand and whilst blinding and stunning foes so they can't hurt is a good tactic, I was looking for spells to cover a wider range and had planned to select Ray of Frost and Knock spell for her new spells for 4th level.
Prestdigitation is on the list but felt with all that had happened that another combat spell might be handier at this point. As for knock, well its a Vocal only spell component and I just couldn't resist, the others however wanted me to go for Mirror Image, but I don't plan on putting myself in harms way unless unavoidable and from experience with this character find that a halfling fighting with a dagger and protected by a shield to be far more effective than the Paladin with a masterwork greatsword and a set of full plate (actually even the ranger is better and thats with the bow in melee!)
Take care and all the best.