Soucres for medieval Eastern Europe

[fusangite]

Thanks guys for correcting me about Bulgarian and Hungarian as languages.

EDIT: The text below was written at the same time as Afrodyte was posting the immediately preceding message.

However, let's see what Afrodyte deems relevant out of the information we're providing. Lots of possible game ideas can be inspired by Van Helsing and Transylvanian ideas of the supernatural that can go in many potential directions. Given that Van Helsing and other Western stories of vampire lore come out of our Victorian period's particularly Freudian take on early modern Eastern European folklore, let's see what she's up to before we begin altering the literal meaning of her question.

 

[johnsemlak]

Are there any D20 settings that borrow heavily from Eastern Europe besides Ravenloft?

Frost and Fur by Monkeygod enterprises has some information on Russian a Slavic campaign, with a Slavic Pantheon, some classes/PrCs, spells, monsters, etc.

2 excellent non d20 sources include the Ars Magica sourcebook The Dragon and the Bear[/b] (available at RPGNow in PDF) and GURPS Russia.

 

[Perun]

Aw, my first double post My baby

 

[Perun]

I actually did set a game in Dalmatia in 813 AD and might have some campaign materials you could use depending on the location and date in which it is set. I did some work on weather magic and Slavic Vila magic.

I'd be interested in seeing what you did with Dalmatia as a campaign. What made you pick it as the campaign region in the first place? Not that it isn't an excellent choice (see avatar and location )...

Turkic: Hungary, Bulgaria

Unusual choices for the Turkic group. Bulgarian is (dare I say "definitely") a slavic language (and very similar to Macedonian; in fact a number of Bulgarians maintain that Macedonian is simply a dialect of Bulgarian, IIRC). OTOH, the bulgarian ethnicity is debatable, IIRC. I think I remember being taught in school that the original bulgarians were non-slavs (either tatar or turkic) who adopted the slavic language. For the life of me, I can't remember who conquered whom, whether it was the bulgarians who conquered the slavs living there, and then adopted the lanugage, or was it the other way around, with slavs forcing the language on the bulgarians...

And what Turjan said, I never heard Hungarian being placed in the turkic group. I was always taught it was a part of the Ugro-Finnic group of languages, along with Finnish and Estonian (but very different from them at the same time).

 

[Desdichado]

I was going to jump on fusangite about his linguistics before I noticed that I'd been preempted. Then again, anyone who recommends Marija Gimbutas can't be all bad!

In his defense, about Hungarian and Turkic, there is a long-standing debate, unresolved to the best of my knowledge (although I'm not up-to-date on the particulars) that would have the Finno-Ugric languages and the Altaic languages (which include the Turkic languages) bundled together in a superfamily similar to Indo-European. Others have no truck with such a theory and consider the Altaic and Finno-Ugric languages to have little in common save for a prolonged contact relationship before the migration of the Magyars and the explosion of the Turks from their linguistic homeland in the Altai Mountains region.

So at least in some respect, that claim wasn't completely unfounded. And no matter how you slice them linguistically, the early Magyars that settled Pannonia and ended up giving it the name Hungary were certainly more Turkic than anything else in culture. There are also persistent attempts to link them (based in part on their own mythology and legends) with the Huns, which are also generally seen as Turkic, or at least proto-Turkic in ethnicity.

All in all, the Magyars are a great example of why it's not a good idea to be too hard-nosed about linking linguistics, ethnicity and other cultural markers. They don't necessarily come in bundles.

 

[Afrodyte]

a little research goes a long way

After doing some preliminary research, the place and time I want to focus on is Romania from the 13th to the 15th century. The cultural and political climate of that time and place are just about perfect for the adventure I have in mind. In general, I want to borrow extensively from medieval Romanian history and culture, not produce an exact replica. Here are some more scholarly questions for those more knowledgeable in this area than I am. Although a detailed overview would be nice, I know that isn't feasible. Whatever you feel comfortable with detailing is fine with me.

Faith and Values
1. What values most shaped the culture (or specific segments of the culture)? How were those values expressed?
2. What role did religion play in the lives of the people? What was their attitude toward religion and faith? Idealistic (such as: faith- especially [insert religion] faith- is necessary to live a good life; faith is a a key part of getting in touch with the divine; [insert lofty goal here])? Pragmatic (for instance: faith is a weapon and defense against the unnatural)? Was religion primarily communal or autonomous? What happens when someone does not share the faith of the local majority? Besides Christianity, what religions were present during this time?

Society and Government
1. What was the basic social structure like? What role did gender, class, ethnicity, and religion play in society?
2. What form of government was there? How did this influence the life of the people?

Folklore and Mythology
1. What role did folklore play in the lives of the people? What were some of the practices and traditions that resulted from it?
2. What are some supernatural creatures they believed in?
3. What are some of the specific myths and folk tales of this period?

Aesthetics
1. What did the typical village look and sound like? The average stronghold? Religious center? The typical commoner? The typical aristocrat?
2. What is the language like? What are some common words? What were the naming customs for people and places?

Something Different
What, in your opinion, are the key elements that make medieval Romania different from other medieval European areas?

I'm not afraid of lots of words. If you want to show off how much you know, that's fine by me. What is important, though, is that the information is accessible enough for a novice (*points to self*) can understand what is being said.

 

[fusangite]

Mercy! Mercy! I've already caved on Bulgarian and Hungarian. You guys are right. I require no more convincing.

I'd be interested in seeing what you did with Dalmatia as a campaign. What made you pick it as the campaign region in the first place? Not that it isn't an excellent choice (see avatar and location )...

It was the only historical game I have ever run. It was set in 813 in northwestern Dalmatia because the region made for the perfect liminal zone in Europe, at the intersection between the Bulgarian, Byzantine and Carolingian Empires with Arab pirates thrown in. At the same time as three empires were claiming to run the area, nobody actually was -- half-Christianized Slavs were living in hill-based pastoral encampments.

What attracted me to under-developed borderlands in the 9th century has to do with my particular taste in "historical" gaming. I'm not interested in games about how we understand things to have been in the past. I like games about the world as people in the past saw it. The 9th century, especially in this region, is a great place for magic with Slavic shape-shifters, Frankish tempestarii, etc.

The game was to be about a journey from Spalato to Sirmium but for various real-world reasons, it was cut short. But not before the battle with the cynocephali.

The game was not D20 but was BRP (Runequest). I can forward along some background material but most of it is just straight from historical documents or is adaptations of traditional magic to the Runequest system.

PS Only one of the characters was a Slav -- she was being married-off to the new Byzantine administrator in Split.

 

[Desdichado]

Afrodyte; check out the following book as a good starting place on what you're looking for. And as for what the folks looked like, you can't go wrong with the Angus McBride color plates!

 

[Afrodyte]

For those who posted sources: thanks for the assistance. It'll really go a long way toward helping me flesh out the setting of the adventure. But a quick question. Are the books you described available in most libraries? I'm definitely interested, but money is low this holiday season.

 

[JackGiantkiller]

First, let me say, hail Perun, mighty axe-wielding god of Thunder.
Second, I'm also quite interested in any such information you folks can provide. I have GURPS Russia, and have done some Slavic/ Balkan research myself...but one region of my current D&D campaign is fairly similar in tone to such nations, and I could use some more tidbits.