SoulBlade - Justify his BAB

Andor

First Post
I like the Soul Blade class, but when I look at it I wonder...

This is a dedicated fighting class, all it does is fight. Period. No spells, no psionic powers, no funky abilities. Nothing but combat stuff.

What do they get? Two good saves, 4 skill points and a decent skill selection, 3 bonus feats over 20 levels, and the psiblade (and psychic strike with it.) The psiblade is a decent weapon, but not really better than what any fighter will have at the same level, except of course that it can't be taken away. Psychic strike (and the probable psionic feats you'll take) do make for a good alpha strike, but then damage drops down to sub-par compared to the weapons another dedicated fighter will be weilding at that level. (Bastard sword vs two hander or battle axe? Impact vs Flaming, shocking.) Oh, and they only get light armour proficiency. If they want better armour they need to dip into another class (Thus losing progression in their one ability) or blow feat, of which they do not posess a surplus.

So why do they only get a clerics BAB? Is psychic strike once or twice a fight worth losing an iterative attack? Should they not be given full BAB progression?
 

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I've thought of it more as a Roguish class. I know people that tried it with a good BAB and they said it was too much.
 



Andor said:
So why do they only get a clerics BAB? Is psychic strike once or twice a fight worth losing an iterative attack? Should they not be given full BAB progression?
It's not once or twice a combat, it's every round. Or every other, if you spend a feat on Psionic Meditation and also focus up for Psionic Weapon or Deep Impact (or the ranged versions if you want). Doing d10+5+5d8 damage (possibly as a touch attack) each round before stats or equipment is taken into account is pretty darn nice for a fighting class. It's about the same that a 20th level monk does with the three highest attacks before stats (though when stats get factored in, the monk is likely to pull ahead thanks to applying Str three times, whereas the soulknife only get 1,5 times). Not to mention being quite a few grand gp ahead of the monk thanks to having a free +9 weapon whereas the monk is going to be paying through the nose for an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
 

Dr. Strangemonkey said:
IMO, both Soulblade and Marshall should have full BAB.

I disagree with giving the Marshal a good BAB. It's more of a supporter-type class with his auras and free move actions. I've always thought of the Marshal as a heavily armored bard in terms of party setup. I know they don't have spells or anything, but those auras can be pretty powerful if used correctly. And an average BAB doesn't make you a completely worthless fighter after all.
 

Dalamar said:
It's not once or twice a combat, it's every round. Or every other, if you spend a feat on Psionic Meditation and also focus up for Psionic Weapon or Deep Impact (or the ranged versions if you want). Doing d10+5+5d8 damage (possibly as a touch attack) each round before stats or equipment is taken into account is pretty darn nice for a fighting class. It's about the same that a 20th level monk does with the three highest attacks before stats (though when stats get factored in, the monk is likely to pull ahead thanks to applying Str three times, whereas the soulknife only get 1,5 times). Not to mention being quite a few grand gp ahead of the monk thanks to having a free +9 weapon whereas the monk is going to be paying through the nose for an Amulet of Mighty Fists.

It's a move action to charge up Psychic strike, so if you use it every round you are giving up all your iterative attacks. If both your iterative attacks at 20th level are worth less than 23 points of damage, you are not pulling your weight as a fighter. And I still feel it ought to be 3 iterative attacks.

It's true that you save a boatload of cash by not having to buy your weapon, but you'll probably be spending it all on defensive items to redeem the fact that you are a front line class in light armour.

The trouble is that the Soul Blade cannot afford to mulitclass, and he makes an iffy dip at best. I could see a rogue dipping in for 2 levels in order to get a permanantly throwable short sword and access to the psionic feats, but anyone else looking to dip for a permanant weapon is better served by going to monk.

Hmm.. The usuall rock-paper-scissors is Fighter beats Monk beats Mage. The soulblade tries to fill the fighter slot, but can he beat a monk?
 

I and one of my players have modified the class thusly:

*bonus feat schedule similar to that of the PsyWar except not at 1st level; developed a list of suitable psionic and other feats

* developed some feats that only work if you have a mindblade (deflect ray attacks, cut through materials, etc. -- some of these require expenditure of psionic focus)

* gave the character a deflection bonus equal to his mind blade's bonus

Some changes were for flavor purposes, some were to boost the power.
 

EricNoah said:
I and one of my players have modified the class thusly:

*bonus feat schedule similar to that of the PsyWar except not at 1st level; developed a list of suitable psionic and other feats

* developed some feats that only work if you have a mindblade (deflect ray attacks, cut through materials, etc. -- some of these require expenditure of psionic focus)

* gave the character a deflection bonus equal to his mind blade's bonus

Some changes were for flavor purposes, some were to boost the power.

Eric, these sound like great additions - have you written them down anywhere online?

Cheers
 

These are not polished in any way, nor are they playtested. They were written by one of my players (EN World member "MeatBop"), and then augmented by me.

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Absorb Ray [SoulKnife, Psionic]
You have a chance to absorb Ray spells with your Mindblade
Prerequisite: Deflect Ray, Dex 13+
Benefit: When a Ray is directed at the SoulKnife, he may make an opposed attack roll with a -2 penalty. Instead of deflecting the ray, he may instead choose to absorb all of the ray's energy into his Mindblade. The character's Mindblade then holds the spell until the blade is either deactivated, or the spell is discharged. To discarge the spell, the character makes a normal attack roll against a target and can choose to release it as part of his attack action. If the attack misses, the spell is still released. This feat can only be used if the Mindblade is already active. Using this ability expends the character's psionic focus, even if the attack roll misses.


Carve [SoulKnife, Psionic]
Your Mindblade cuts through objects like a hot knife through butter
Prerequisite: none
Benefit: A SoulKnife can cut through wood, stone or metal with his Mindblade. When using a full-round action to attack an object, Mindblade ignores some hardness based on the enhancement bonus of his mind blade.
• +1 enhancement bonus: ignore 5 points of hardness (bypasses typical wood)
• +2 enhancement bonus: ignore 8 points of hardness (bypasses typical stone)
• +3 enhancement bonus: ignore 10 points of hardness (bypasses typical iron/steel)
• +4 enhancement bonus: ignore 12 points of hardness (aids with harder substances like mithral and adamantine).
If the Soulknife expends his psionic focus while making a carving attack, the attack’s effects are doubled (ignore twice as many points of hardness, and deal double damage vs. the object).

Against solid wood, stone or metal, (such as walls, floors, cavern walls or thick trees) the Mindblade can cut through these materials at different rates.
• Wood - 1 foot/10 seconds
• Stone - 1 foot/minute
• Iron/Steel - 1 foot/10 minutes
Using the ability to cut through solid objects requires the character's total concentration, so it is unusable during a combat situation. [we haven't totally decided if these times are appropriate or not.]


Deflect Ray [SoulKnife, Psionic]
You have a chance to deflect some of the impact of Ray spells with your Mindblade
Prerequisite: Dex 13+
Benefit: When a Ray is directed at the SoulKnife, he may make an opposed attack roll with a -2 penalty. If successful, he deflects the ray and doesn't suffer any of the ray's effects (damage or otherwise). This feat can only be used if the Mindblade is already active. Using this feat expends the character's psionic focus.


Energy Sweep [SoulKnife, Psionic]
You're adept at hitting multiple targets with your Mind Blade.
Prerequisite: none (soulknife)
Benefit: As a standard action, you may opt to hit two adjecent targets with your mindblade. A roll must be made for each target with your highest to-hit value and any additional attacks that would otherwise be made during the round are forfeited for this action. If the first or second attack hits, you roll damage as normal. However if both the first and second attack hit, then you roll your damage and then divide the damage equally between both targets. Using this feat uses up the characters psionic focus, but only if both targets are hit.


Focus Burst [Psionic]
When expending your psionic focus, you release an abnormal amount of energy
Prerequisite: Base Will Save +5
Benefit: You can activate two abilities that require expending your psionic focus instead of only one. Both abilities must be activated simultaneously. The following round, the character is staggered. [I have some doubts about the balance on this one but we'll give it a shot.]


Improved Psychic Whirlwind [Psionic]
You tap into a reckless reserve of Psionic Power
Prerequisite: Psychic Whirlwind, Con 13+
Benefit: Works the same as Psychic Whirlwind, except the attack and damage bonus increases to +3 and the character is not staggered the following round.


Knife to the Mind [SoulKnife]
You can read your opponents thoughts
Prerequisite: Wis 13+
Benefit: Using your Mindblade, you can thrust it into a living target's mind and read their thoughts. The target must be awake, and offer little physical resistance (tied up, victim of a Hold Person spell, etc). The SoulKnife can telepathically probe for the answers to a number of questions equal to his Wisdom modifier. For each question, the Soulknife and the target make opposed Will saves. If the SoulKnife is successful, he obtains an answer to his question but only to the best of the target's ability to answer. The target cannot lie, but he may not know the answer to the question or he only may think he knows (someone could've lied to him, of course). If the target is successful, the link is severed. The SoulKnife may only attempt a Knife to the Mind once a day per target.


Psychic Whirlwind [Psionic]
You tap into a reckless reserve of Psionic Power
Prerequisite: Constitution 13+
Benefit: For a number of rounds equal to your Constitution modifier, you are able to tap into wild psionic energies as a free action. You become enveloped in crackling psionic energy (color at player's choice). Each round that this power is active, you gain a cumulative insight bonus of +2 to your attack and damage rolls, and a cumulative -2 penalty to your AC. The round following the duration of Psychic Whirlwind, you are staggered. Using this power expends your psionic focus.


Psychokinetic Scramble [SoulKnife]
Your Mindblade can warp your target's psyche
Prerequisite: Psychic Strike 1d8 or higher
Benefit: When a character attacks with their psychokinetically charged Mindblade, they may choose to trade in Psychic Strike damage dice for other effects.
• 1 die - Stagger Opponent
• 2 dice - Daze Opponent
• 3 dice - Stun Opponent
The target is affected for one round with no saving throw. The same restrictions on types of creatures that can be affected by Psyckokinetic Charge apply to Psychokinetic Scramble. If the character opts to expend their psionic focus, they can affect the target for 1d4+1 rounds. [I may make this one a Psionic feat as well, requiring the expenditure of psionic focus in order to activate.]
 
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