Soulknife Multiple Throw ability

[Dr_Rictus]

I'm puzzled by the Soulknife's Multiple Throw ability. It says that it lets you throw a number of mindblades equal to the number of melee attacks you could make. But what's keeping Soulblades from doing that anyway? Any soulblade with at least a +6 BAB has already got the ability to materialize a mindblade as a free action, so what's the barrier to making two thrown weapon attacks in the first place?

Granted, you can't do this round after round (since you can only materialize a mindblade once per round), and a 20th-level soulblade couldn't get 3 thrown attacks without the Multiple Throw ability. Still, I can't help thinking that the author imagined some impediment to making two thrown mindblade attacks that just isn't there in the RAW.

 

[Chorn]

What you're missing is that the mind blade dissipates as soon as the soulknife lets go of it. He can't throw the blade at all at first level because it would cease to exist as soon as it leaves his hand. A second level soulknife has the Throw Mind Blade ability which allows him to maintain the blade's existence when he throws it. However, he only has enough skill to maintain one blade like this. When he gets the Multiple Throw ability, his power is enough that he can sustain up to four mind blades in flight.

Yes, it is possible to get four throws. He just needs to dip into a good BAB class to get at least a +16 BAB for four attacks, then use Shape Mind Blade to generate a pair of short swords. Multiple Throw to toss the two blades in his hand, then Free Draw another pair of blades for his last two attacks.

 

[DreamChaser]

Yes, it is possible to get four throws. He just needs to dip into a good BAB class to get at least a +16 BAB for four attacks, then use Shape Mind Blade to generate a pair of short swords. Multiple Throw to toss the two blades in his hand, then Free Draw another pair of blades for his last two attacks.

He can't free draw two more mind blades because shaping a mindblade is a move action and any multiple attacks (no matter how you get them) are always a full attack action.

The following would work--
1st round: materialize his mindblade (free) and shape it into two (move action) and even melee attack (standard)
2nd round: throw both then free materialize one more and throw it (full attack) and take a 5 foot step.

Not quite as good as the multiple throw ability. Which is why multiple throw is a separate ability.

DC

 

[Someone]

In the Wizards´ boards there´s a couple threads on this, including comments by the designers. Apparently, the intent behind the rules is that the soulknife can only throw one soulblade per round; it doesn´t matter how many of them he can create or has in hand until he´s level 17. (Also, the blade is supposed to appear in the same form (short, long, bastard or couple of shortswords) it were the last time.)

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Apparently, the intent behind the rules is that the soulknife can only throw one soulblade per round; it doesn´t matter how many of them he can create or has in hand until he´s level 17.

Wow, it would be nice if it actually said that, anywhere. Thanks.

 

[Chorn]

He can't free draw two more mind blades because shaping a mindblade is a move action and any multiple attacks (no matter how you get them) are always a full attack action.

As Someone said, the mind blade retains its last form so you wouldn't need to shape the blade again. The XPH has additional flavor text not found in the SRD under the Multiple Throw entry that even says he can throw four blades a round with dual blades.

Wow, it would be nice if it actually said that, anywhere. Thanks.

Yeah, this part can be unclear since it isn't explicitly written that you can only throw one blade a time. As written you need to read into the text to understand the model behind the soulknife's abilities.

There's also one more way to get four blade throws that doesn't require multiclassing for more attacks. If the soulknife has Rapid Shot, he can use the extra attack to throw his remaining mind blade albeit with the -2 penalty to all attacks that round.

 

[DreamChaser]

As Someone said, the mind blade retains its last form so you wouldn't need to shape the blade again. The XPH has additional flavor text not found in the SRD under the Multiple Throw entry that even says he can throw four blades a round with dual blades.

There is absolutely nothing in the text (XPH or SRD) to indicate that this is the case and the fact the it requires a full round action to make your mind blade take a new shape (longsword, bastard sword, or two swords) strongly indicates that it must be shaped anew each time it is summoned otherwise having it take time is senseless (plus it never metions shaping it into a single short sword, implying that this is the default form when summoned).

There is only one effect that is clearly stated as staying after the blade is dismissed at that is Psychic Strike.

If the designers wanted to errata this, why didn't they errata in in the XPH errata rather than mentioning it on a BBoard.

DC

ps. yes, I know my interpretation technically means that a soulknife can't ever throw 4 but then again, that is why it is a special benefit of being 17th level. In this single instance, the soul knife can can summon enough short swords to throw up to 4 of them.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

the fact the it requires a full round action to make your mind blade take a new shape (longsword, bastard sword, or two swords) strongly indicates that it must be shaped anew each time it is summoned otherwise having it take time is senseless

Not really. I can easily think of reasons you might want to shape your mindblade in the middle of a combat. If you can't wield the bastard sword version one-handed, you can trade off AC for damage by switching off use of a shield. If you've got Weapon Finesse, you'd generally prefer the shortsword version, but the longsword is better for thrown mindblades where you get to use Dex to hit anyway. However, the full round action keeps you from switching freely based on circumstances in this way.

 

[Plane Sailing]

There is only one effect that is clearly stated as staying after the blade is dismissed at that is Psychic Strike.

Don't forget the weapon enhancements - they stay keyed into the weapon until you take 8 hours to change them.

 

[Someone]

If the designers wanted to errata this, why didn't they errata in in the XPH errata rather than mentioning it on a BBoard.

Because they are EVIL!!!

Seriously, that isn´t the first or the worst case of sloppy wording (in the XPH or WotC books in general). And they did not ´errata´ it in the BBoard, but those were answers to e-mails from users that were then posted.