Sovereign Stone's Magic System..balanced?

[Caspian Moon Prince]

I've had the main setting book for a while(haven't read the books, but it looked interesting enough). Anyways, the magic system is a bit strange. They use a sort of channelling system where you roll a check based on your level as a mage +1d20 and are trying to roll higher than the spells casting number. If you do not beat it in one round, you continue rolling and casting until you beat the number and the spell goes off. There is some added penalties each round you take to cast it(some sort of fortitude check), and if you fail it hurts you some and well that is beside the point.

While I do like that idea, the way the book presents it seems awfully weak. It looks like it could take 2 or 3 turns(if the caster rolls decent) for a 5th level wizard in the system to cast an equivalent 3rd level spell.

To make up for this, the caster gets a d6 hitdice and 4+int skill points per level. That really doesn't seem to make it balanced at all for the wizard.

Anyone else have the book or better played it? Was it balanced and I'm just missing something?

 

[Fenris]

I really like the SS magic system and will use it in the next game I run. While yes it may take several turns to get that spell off, you can also cast it as many times a day as you like. The system is a weaker than core, but that is what I want. Additionally the spells they have are less combat oriented (though they are there) and more useful all around, the wat magic should be. I think it is a very functional and balanced system that provides more flexibility and usefulness to a caster at the expense a little power. I don't mind giving up the power one iota.

 

[Caspian Moon Prince]

I really like the system as well, and I'm deciding between it or tweaking the recharge magic system from UA to match what I want in a low-magic setting I'm probably going to run as my next campaign. The thing is that it doesn't seem balanced to me. As soon as a fight comes they better hide and not come out until it is over or they are dead.

Now what I'm thinking is that to balance them furthur is to give them a mid BAB(+15) so they have a chance to fight and perhaps allow light armor.

 

[Fenris]

I really like the system as well, and I'm deciding between it or tweaking the recharge magic system from UA to match what I want in a low-magic setting I'm probably going to run as my next campaign. The thing is that it doesn't seem balanced to me. As soon as a fight comes they better hide and not come out until it is over or they are dead.

Now what I'm thinking is that to balance them furthur is to give them a mid BAB(+15) so they have a chance to fight and perhaps allow light armor.

Actually class already starts with light armor proficiency and armor only adds a -2, -4 and -6 Spellcasting penalty to spellcasting, meaning it slows casting down slightly. They really don't need a BAB adjustment, since they could multiclass and cast in heavy armor if they really wanted to. A 5th level caster can cast a Beard Burner spell almost every other turn ALL DAY, not just once a day, but as many times as he wishes (and can make the save). Heck with a good roll he could get it off in one turn. Now it may be 5d8 of subdual damage, but it's 5d8, not bad in a low magic setting. Who needs 8 hours of rest between encounters? Not a Sovereign Stone mage!

 

[Caspian Moon Prince]

That's true, I forgot about the change in armor penalties for spellcasting.

I have noticed that there are a few spells that taken at low level(such as firebolt which does 3d6 damage) could possibly be cast by a first level wizard in one round. They would have to get lucky(threshold 17 so they would need a 16), but still that isn't to bad. The problem is at higher levels the spells get, mainly talking spells that would be cast in combat, are too high. For example Fireball has casting threshold 66(meaning at least 3 rounds at 20th level) and only does 4d10. That is pretty weak.

I really don't mind that combat spells are weaker than normal(I actually like it), but the class has little to balance itself out for combat purposes. I think that upping the BAB would help this some.

 

[pensiv]

For example Fireball has casting threshold 66(meaning at least 3 rounds at 20th level)

So if you don't meet the threshold in the first turn, your roll is added to your roll for the next turn?

 

[Caspian Moon Prince]

Yeah, it cumulates round after round. With the fireball example if you roll a 20 on the check that knocks the casting threshold down to 46 and you continue to cast into the next round and so on until you reach it.

 

[2WS-Steve]

One issue I have with the system is that there's not much incentive to raise one's level as a mage. For example, a spell like Strength of Stone, which provides a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength for 10 minutes, has a casting threshold of 31. Given that few of the spells are really castable in a single round and the ones that take multiple rounds don't cause that much damage anyway, I figure one wouldn't use them for combat so much as out of combat.

With a +1 bonus, at just first level, you'll typically take 3 rounds to cast that. You have to raise the bonus to +6 to drop the average to 2 rds and at 20th level with all your points in one area you'll still typically take 2 rounds to cast it. It'd be best to take a +1 in each of the elements, maybe a +1 in Void, then dump all your levels into something like Soldier which gives you a high Fort save and good hit points for surviving the Strain.

 

[Caspian Moon Prince]

That is something I had not thought of, but looks to be true. Just take those levels and get the useful spells from each element and then get yourself buffed up with a fighter class.

I suppose you could put caster level requirments on spells to keep that from happening, but that takes away from the system as presented. I'm not sure how to remedy that.

 

[Fenris]

You guys are forgeting that that spell would be full reference at first level. That means 2 rounds of prep then 2-3 rounds of casting. Going up in levels increases your Initimate Knowledge and Quick Reference scores so you can cast more spells more quickly.
Also I will be putting a cap on Full reference spells to correlate with quick reference. Also one level in each element doesn't get you much, and the cross-elements (weatherm lightning, animal and plant) don't generate new Intimate knowledge points, they come out of a basic element.
If you like just limit, by role-playing, what spells a mage can start with and accumulate. A first level mage should not have access to every single spell. Just as in Core a mage needs to pick up additional spells through trade or scrolls or whatnot, a mage might not start out with the single best spell he likes.

Also the cooperative spellcasting feats let multiple spell casters cast one spell. So if you have two mages in the party you could cast twice as fastif they both had the feats. That lets the more powerful spells get off much much quicker. Even a low level mage can help a higher level mage get off a spell well.

But your points are well taken, I have been thinking about how to prevent a character from taking just one level of mage (even in one element) just to cast a handful of spells regardless of the casting time.