SoW: TPK last night

[Bagpuss]

At will close blast 5 that causes ongoing acid 10 (save ends), first failed save = slowed + ongling 10, second fialed save = turned to goo (= petrified until Remove Affliction).

Plus aura 2 that causes ongoing 10 acid damage (save ends).

Remember those acid damage won't stack though. Neither will the ongoing 5 acid from his Katar attacks, so the worst you are going to take is 10 acid from ongoing effects any round.

I'm really surprised his Blood Chaos Flare isn't a recharge power okay it only does ongoing 10 damage, but if he keeps spamming it, then everyone is going to be hit and eventually someone will fail two saves.

Also the Force Sphere effectively gives Sarshan +500 hit points, if you try to take it down in melee, you end up in range of Blood Chaos Flare which is the only power he has and so he is bound to spam you with it.

Although the description of the encounter makes me wonder if he shouldn't just be keeping on at his ritual until it looks like the Force Sphere is about to collapse (even if his tactics mention spamming Blood Chaos Flare from behind it's protection).

Looking at the map do you have many push, slide powers? Personally I rarely play a character that can't move the enemy at least one square (virtually at-will), just because knocking monsters off ledges saves so much time. That seems about the only real chance of winning, but unfortunately he made his save not surprising with his Solo save bonus and +2 for the wall around the edge.

I think the only way to really win would be to let him escape.

As for continuing, could people from the village below have witnesses the heroes defence of their homes and decide to take up their cause? (After taking a home-study course in adventuring to get them up to 13th level?).

 

[Klaus]

Remember those acid damage won't stack though. Neither will the ongoing 5 acid from his Katar attacks, so the worst you are going to take is 10 acid from ongoing effects any round.

I'm really surprised his Blood Chaos Flare isn't a recharge power okay it only does ongoing 10 damage, but if he keeps spamming it, then everyone is going to be hit and eventually someone will fail two saves.

Also the Force Sphere effectively gives Sarshan +500 hit points, if you try to take it down in melee, you end up in range of Blood Chaos Flare which is the only power he has and so he is bound to spam you with it.

Although the description of the encounter makes me wonder if he shouldn't just be keeping on at his ritual until it looks like the Force Sphere is about to collapse (even if his tactics mention spamming Blood Chaos Flare from behind it's protection).

Looking at the map do you have many push, slide powers? Personally I rarely play a character that can't move the enemy at least one square (virtually at-will), just because knocking monsters off ledges saves so much time. That seems about the only real chance of winning, but unfortunately he made his save not surprising with his Solo save bonus and +2 for the wall around the edge.

I think the only way to really win would be to let him escape.

As for continuing, could people from the village below have witnesses the heroes defence of their homes and decide to take up their cause? (After taking a home-study course in adventuring to get them up to 13th level?).

Hmmm... I wonder if the close blast should've been "one enemy in blast". That ought to cut it down a bit.

And the aura should give enemies vulnerability 5 acid. That'd make enemies more vulnerable to his attacks without being auto-damage.

 

[Legildur]

One great ritual that I love is the one to transfer HS's to the members of the party. It can be a lifesaver when used correctly. My warden with 14 surges never ran out of them at the Extended Rest. However, once we got this ritual it really helped our group.

Our 10th level party recently identified the same ritual as being a potential life saver. We're yet to use it, but it looks to hold real promise, particularly with a Con-based Warden in the party.

Whether through bad luck or bad tactics, the error was made when you first entered. Our group has come to think that in most of those modules, the "gatekeepers" tend to be tougher than the following encounters. As a result we simply don't hold back, when trying to get our proverbial feet in the door. What you save in powers, you lose in healing.

The temptation to try and hold onto Daily powers is big. Unfortunately it sometimes just isn't the right way to go.

Agreed. Our party took a while to adapt to this way of thinking. Now it's a case of 'can I get good mileage out of Daily power X in this situation?' If the answer is yes, then it gets burned, otherwise we end up with unused dailies and no surges and needing an extended rest.

 

[Klaus]

Disclaimer: I'm not complaining about the TPK, the loss of my character, or the writing/balance of the adventure we were running. I'm more curious about what we could have done to avoid the outcome we got.

So, lost my first 4e character last night as part of a TPK in the Scales of War adventure path. I don't know what, if anything, would have saved our party based on the make-up of the party, and the nature of the encounter(s) that did us in, but I was curious if anyone else had similar experiences with the portion of the adventure path we were on.

First off, party make-up (level 12):

• Human Storm Warden/Storm Sentinel
• Warforged Tactical Warlord/Longarm Marshall
• Eladrin Illusionist Wizard/Wizard of the Spiral Tower
• Elven Archery Ranger/Battlefield Archer
• Halfling Trickster Rogue/Halfling Quickblade

Module: Beyond the Mottled Tower

[sblock]We've pretty much handled everything thrown at us up until this point with relative ease. We've had PCs drop unconscious, get close to failing that dreaded 3rd Death Saving Throw, etc., but we've always managed to pull through, and we've never lost a PC.

Last night was different. We were attempting to follow Sarshan (kind of an interplanar Shadar-Kai arms dealer) to the top of his tower in the Elemental Chaos, and escape the rising magma/Blood Chaos mixture that the tower was sinking down into towards the very end of the module in question.

For those unfamiliar with the adventure, you step through a portal into the Elemental Chaos, not far from the City of Brass, in a roiling magma sea atop floating "earthbergs". You then fight your way to shore, hopping for shifting berg to berg, then you enter an obsidian tower and must fight your way to the top level to finally confront Sarshan who has been making your life very difficult for quite a while.

Well, our party cruised through the "earthberg" encounter fairly unscathed. We entered the tower, and really struggled with the very next rising magma/get to the escape portal/kill off the baddies waiting for you encounter. By the time this encounter was over, I (the Warlord) and our Wizard were each down to 2 Healing Surges. Many of us had used up daily item powers, and our Warden was reduced to 4 Surges.

The next encounter (the one with the trapped crushing walls and ceiling) wasn't too awful. The large flesh golem was able to rampage on us twice, which hurt, but we were able to take turns delaying the trapped walls and never got crushed. However, by the end of this encounter (and the rest after it), the Warden was down to 3 Surges, and the Wizard and myself were at 0. The Ranger was out of Daily powers, and we KNEW we were in trouble if we couldn't get an extended rest.

It turns out we couldn't get an extended rest. The DM allowed us to disabled the trapped wall room permanently, and we got in a short rest. With our loins girded, we left the chamber and used the portal to reach the roof to confront Sarshan.

Surprisingly, as depleted as our resources were, we managed to kill off everyone on the roof (4 minions, 6 regulars if memory serves correctly) except for Sarshan. Unfortunately, Sarshan's "I spit on you, you gradually turn into acidy goo" power reduced our Rogue who still had 2 Daily's unspent into a pile of slime after 2 failed saves immediately after every other enemy was dropped and Sarshan stepped out of the protective magic shell he was hiding in.

Our ranger followed him into the gooey afterlife shortly after. Down to 3 characters, and nearly ENTIRELY spent, I blew my last real trick, and ran up to Sarshan, and attempted an Opening Shove. I missed. I Action Pointed, and hit with Driving Spear. Thanks to my Tactician's Armor I could push him 5 squares. If Opening Shove had hit, the combination of the two would have moved him 6 squares, 2 beyond the edge of the top of the tower, and ended this whole issue. As it was, it only moved him 5. He made his save at the edge, and it was over except for the paperwork at that point.

Our Warden as surgeless, at 28 hit points. I was surgeless, and at 23 hit points. The Wizard was surgeless, and at 44 hit points. We conceded the TPK when the DM told us Sarshan was still north of 400 hit points.

The adventure specified you could not take an extended rest once you arrived in the Elemental Chaos. We did the rough math, and figured we'd gone 3 encounters before confronting Sarshan on the roof, and his encounter was really 2-in-1, since that 4th encounter was kind of in phases (Phase 1, fight 8 mooks, Phase 2, fight Sarshan and 2 mooks, and Sarshan was a level 12 solo).

So...5 quite difficult encounters, no extended rests. We had a pretty pervasive mood of fatalism once we realized how depleted we were following the entry to the obsidian tower. We kind of figured the TPK was coming, but that doesn't mean we didn't want to avoid it.[/sblock]

So...with all that being said...how could things have gone differently? I wonder if the only chance we really would have had is if the DM would have fudged things and given us an extended rest somewhere in there, but meh. It happened.

If you want to continue with this party, I'd say that the rest of the party hid behind the pillars on the roof and waited for Sarshan to complete his ritual and flee, then scooped up the gooified PCs and searched for some Remove Affliction.

The only way to survive this fight would turn it into a grind: hide behind the pillars for superior cover, then move to attack and go back to cover. When Sarshan comes out to fight, keep out of his aura and keep a pillar between you and him (+5 to defenses from superior cover can be a life saver). This would've kept the ranger and rogue alive long enough to bring down his hit points.

 

[Ryujin]

Agreed. Our party took a while to adapt to this way of thinking. Now it's a case of 'can I get good mileage out of Daily power X in this situation?' If the answer is yes, then it gets burned, otherwise we end up with unused dailies and no surges and needing an extended rest.

Exactly; it takes thinking tactically. In one encounter we had to cross a bridge that was above a moat, in order to get into the place we were assaulting. The squishy leader and glass cannons were on the other side of the bridge, which was held by a rather tough looking brute-type. After sizing up the situation I tossed Storm Countess's Kiss at the brute and yanked him 40 feet in the air, which took him out of the fight for a couple of rounds. When he made his saving throw, I tossed him into the moat. By the time he'd climbed back up most of the fight was over and he was handily taken out, mostly with at-wills.

There is always a good spread of dailies in a party. A couple of them, used at an opportune moment, can save a bunch of healing surges.

 

[Legildur]

There is always a good spread of dailies in a party. A couple of them, used at an opportune moment, can save a bunch of healing surges.

Agreed. It's all in the timing. And not assuming that Dailies should only be used on big bosses.

For the OP, I wouldn't feel too bad as no doubt the group I play in would see the same result. While we are all clever people, for some reason we seem to lack the tactical nouse that other groups apparently demonstrate (on reading various story hours). Mind you, our 4th level party cut through 7 combats in one session a couple of weeks back before we took an extended rest.

 

[TarionzCousin]

This is all making me want to check out SoW...

This adventure in particular does sound pretty interesting.

I just re-read the stats for Sarshan and wow, is that an unbalanced critter!

At will close blast 5 that causes ongoing acid 10 (save ends), first failed save = slowed + ongling 10, second fialed save = turned to goo (= petrified until Remove Affliction).

Plus aura 2 that causes ongoing 10 acid damage (save ends).

Unless you stockpiled on acid resistance, there's very little chance of a 12th-level party surviving him.

Auras suck. Speaking from a melee character's perspective (Avenger), it really stinks to take damage from an aura. I like Klaus's suggestion of making the aura "Vulnerable 5: Acid" much better than just taking damage.

In response to the OP, I think your party was too depleted when you got to Sarshan. That's not much help, I know--it didn't sound like your group wasted its resources before the end battle, but if you are really set on analyzing why this happened, you must start there.

With your falling rules, I'm surprised you didn't have suicidal charges when the PC's were almost unconscious. "Out of powers? Bull Rush Sarshan over the edge."

 

[Arbanax]

Very helpful comments thanks everyone. Although not the original poster, its been helpful to read the comments along the way with this particular Adventure path in mind.

I'm new to DMing 4e (old 1st Ed dm, just getting back into DM after 20 years with a whole new group of people I've recently met through EN World) and I am planning to run this adventure, until I've got enough working knowledge to change it. I can see it does need to 'fit' with a party and without goofing it. I wanted to know if my bright and shiny campaign went belly up on account of the players either making bad decisions or getting bad rolls so I didn't have to go back to the drawing board.

The comments along the way have been helpful. Interesting that Sharshan is so powerful in the light of the new MM3 tweaks, so has it gone too far the other way? Tactically it sounds like a really challenging battle in any case.

Ab

 

[Jhaelen]

You know what? I hadn't even considered that - I pointed this out to him a few weeks back, that the monster damage got bumped up in MM3, and his eyes kind of lit up when I mentioned it.

He might have done just that...but, he doesn't seem like the kind of DM who likes to deviate from what's published in front of him. He tends to run adventures straight from the module without coloring outside the lines, so to speak.

Regardless, good catch.

That's what came to my mind after reading your report! I'd love to know if that's what he did because I'm in the process of upgrading all encounters in my next adventure.

I've already warned my players about it, though, so in theory, they should be prepared for a beating

 

[Stumblewyk]

Thanks for your comments and advice. After talking things over with my wife (the player of the Warden in the party) and reading what others here have said, the only thing we could have done to avoid becoming slimy piles of elemental acidy goo on the tower roof would've been to blow more Daily Powers before reaching the roof. I can say from my own perspective that I would've loved the opportunity to do that, but I spent a good portion of the encounters leading up to the roof dazed, immobilized (and out of healing range), or some other status anomaly that kept me from using my "I whack guys, you get healed"-type powers. And obviously, the Warden was moving through her Forms as the encounters went on. I think by the end, she had used up her Daily Powers, I know the Ranger was out of them, and the Wizard has used a few. But, myself and the Rogue were still holding them by the time we got to the roof.

All-in-all, it was a fun, dynamic series of encounters, if a bit frustrating in hind-sight knowing the outcome.