Space and AOO's

[Primitive Screwhead]

I see a ragged edge on this question that could use some attention..

A 10x10 creature takes the withdraw action, meaning all 4 of its starting squares are not considered threatened.....

.. . .
.. XX
.AXX

A= enemy
X= Large guy. Withdraws directly north (up )

The first 5' of movement does not draw an AoO.

.. XX
.. XX
.A . .

Does the second 5' of movement draw an AoO?

My take was that movement after the first 5' was treated as normal, as such 'A' would get an AoO on the retreating flank of the larger enemy.

Any opinions?

 

[Goolpsy]

in 3.0 the Withdraw action was called a 'Double move' action or something and did the same

 

[dcollins]

Does the second 5' of movement draw an AoO?

I would also say "yes, absolutely" to that.

 

[Coredump]

I would also say "yes, absolutely" to that.

As a DM, I would rule it that way also. As a rules geek... I'm not so sure. Since it specifically states that the original squares are not threatened by the opponent.

The scenario above would seem to still allow no AoO since the two squares the opponent can reach are both 'original' squares, and hence he does not threaten them.


But again, there is a reason we play with DM's, and I would allow the AoO.

 

[Rel]

Does the second 5' of movement draw an AoO?

My take was that movement after the first 5' was treated as normal, as such 'A' would get an AoO on the retreating flank of the larger enemy.

Any opinions?

I agree with you. I see this as being one of the downsides of being large.

Per the rules, "The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square."

I would assume that a "square" refers to a 5' grid square, not the square area that a figure occupies. In the example drawn, if the Large critter really wants to avoid an AoO then perhaps he can withdraw in another direction. If there is somebody over there that makes that impossible then that's just tough. The bigger you are, the harder you maneuver.

 

[Zandel]

That was my point with this question. This can mean that it's impossible to withdraw if your large or larger without taking AOO's. Now how does that Colossal dragon feel when he tries to run away only to get cutdown by the rain of blows from all those rogues with combat reflexes?

 

[Asmo]

That was my point with this question. This can mean that it's impossible to withdraw if your large or larger without taking AOO's. Now how does that Colossal dragon feel when he tries to run away only to get cutdown by the rain of blows from all those rogues with combat reflexes?

The dragon should have fly speed listed and could fly from the rogues, right?

Asmo

 

[dcollins]

Oh, those poor Colossal dragons: how they wish they could escape from combat more effectively! (sniff)

 

[Murrdox]

Okay let's look at some diagrams. Forgive my lack of skill with ASCII.

. . . . . . . . . .
. . . .!.!.X.X . .
. . . .!O.X.X . .
. . . .!.!.!. . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .

X = Large Creature
O= Creature next to him
! = O's threat radius

Creature X has a few options available to him. He can retreat to the right.

. . . . . . . . . .
. . . .!.!.!.X.X. .
. . . .!O.!.X.X. .
. . . .!.!.!. . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .

Obviously in this case, X draws no AoO in this case, since he doesn't enter any additional squares.

Now, what if he moves upward 10 feet?

. . . . . .X.X. . .
. . . . . .X.X. . .
. . . .!.!.?. . . .
. . . .!O.!. . . .
. . . .!.!.!. . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .

In this case, threatened area "?" was left, then entered again by another part of X, and then left again. However, this should not provoke an AoO (if I understand the rules correctly) since the squares that the retreating monster occupies are not considered threatened, even though he has "left" the square twice.

Now, what if he moves downward 10 feet??

. . . . . . . . . .
. . . .!.!.!. . . .
. . . .!O.?. . . .
. . . .!.!.@. . . .
. . . . . .X.X. . .
. . . . . .X.X. . .

In this case we have the same situation as above, and "?" represents a square that has been left, entered again, and left. @ is a square that originally was NOT occupied, and was moved into and left.

In this instance, I would say that because @ was not originally in a threatened area that X occupied, when X moves out of @, he draws an AoO. The "?" square still does not provoke an AoO.

Have I got it right? Someone please correct me if not.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It appears to be an undefined condition for Large+ creatures to withdraw. Square and space are not interchangeable and the rules on withdrawing use only square. If you do substitue Space for square, then the Large+ creature does provoke as it moves, as it appears everyone here would rule it anyways. If you instead use Square and say "each square you occupy", then the Large+ creature does not provoke.