Space for Weapons

[Dandu]

The thought occurred to me that a fighter with a spiked chain or cleric with a longspear should not be able to use those weapons effectively in certain situations, such as if they were fighting in a 5x5 dungeon corridor, or in a doorway.

Now, the default rules for weapons do not cover this situation as far as I know, but it seems only logical that the surrounding terrain would impact the effectiveness of certain weapons. I submit that reach weapons should be penalized in close quarters combat, perhaps with a -5 penalty for being inappropriate for the environment.

Not only would this allow for more realistic combat, but it would force melee PCs to mix it up a little and use weapons other than their main weapon for a change.

Thoughts?

 

[Hunter99]

Interesting, although I'm not sure how common it is to fight in close quarters.

Generally, I think a DM can use the environment to spice up a battle and to make it fun and challenging.

 

[Dandu]

Interesting, although I'm not sure how common it is to fight in close quarters.

In a game of Dungeons & Dragons?

 

[Empirate]

There's actually rules for this, in Underdark. They even differentiate between spaces that are narrow and spaces that are low. Can even be both...
The penalties are quite harsh, and most reach weapons are outright useless, IIRC.

 

[Sekhmet]

The thought occurred to me that a fighter with a spiked chain or cleric with a longspear should not be able to use those weapons effectively in certain situations, such as if they were fighting in a 5x5 dungeon corridor, or in a doorway.

I remember that Advanced Dungeons and Dragons had rules regarding using two handed and long weapons in compact conditions.
Does anyone happen to have the AD&D DMG / PHB on them that can leaf through it for them? Mine's in another state.

 

[Sekhmet]

There's actually rules for this, in Underdark. They even differentiate between spaces that are narrow and spaces that are low. Can even be both...
The penalties are quite harsh, and most reach weapons are outright useless, IIRC.

Narrow or Low: An area that is smaller horizontally than the creature’s space or smaller vertically than its height falls into this category, so long as the constricted dimension is at least one-half the creature’s space or height, respectively. A creature in such a space moves at one-half its normal speed because of the cramped conditions, and running and charging are impossible.
The cramped creature takes a –2 circumstance penalty on attack rolls with light weapons and a –4 circumstance penalty on attack rolls with one-handed
weapons. It cannot use two handed weapons at all.

Narrow and Low: An area that is smaller in both the horizontal and vertical dimensions than the creature’s space falls
into this category, so long as each of the constricted dimensions is at least one-half the creature’s space or height,
respectively. A creature in these conditions moves at one-quarter normal speed and takes attack penalties
equal to twice those above.

Crawl-Navigable. An area less than one-half but at least one-quarter of the creature’s height is crawl-navigable. The creature can move through such a space by falling prone and crawling at a speed of 5 feet (1 square), but it must remove medium and heavy armor, backpacks, and other bulky equipment (although these can be dragged along behind). The normal penalties for lying prone apply. The only ranged weapon a creature in a crawl-navigable space can use is a crossbow.

Awkward Space. An awkward space is narrower than narrow, lower than low, or smaller than crawl-navigable, but not quite a tight squeeze. For example, a fissure 2 feet wide is less than one-half the space of a Medium creature and is therefore more cramped than a narrow space, but any Medium creature should be able to wriggle through with a little work. A creature in such a space can move 5 feet (1 square) with a DC 15 Escape Artist check. Fighting in an awkward space is possible only with light weapons, and the creature takes a –8 circumstance penalty on its attack rolls. The only ranged weapon a creature in an awkward space can use is a crossbow.

Tight Squeeze. A tight squeeze is an area larger than the creature’s head but smaller than its shoulders, as described in the Escape Artist skill description. The creature can move 1 square with a DC 30 Escape Artist check. Fighting in a tight squeeze is impossible.

In case you don't have the book available.

 

[anest1s]

You are partially right.

I think that a measure like that greatly adds to the realism of the game. It is odd, that usually one can find a Fighter with one magical, one alchemical reach, and one cold iron reach weapon. The magical one will be the strongest he can afford, and the others are just used with an oil of magic weapon etc.

Now don't take me wrong, but this makes +5 spiked chains fairly common when they shouldn't be. Also by giving them uber abilities, every other weapon wouldn't be used at all (when guns were made it was a matter of time for useless melee weapons to disappear). But they are situational weapons and thats why they aren't used always by everyone.


But you aren't taking this far enough.
A PC who is sneaking next to a wall, how can possibly spin the spiked chain around him like he should? He should get a penalty for that.
How can you swing a reach weapon in a forest? If there is a tree in the squares surrounding you its only fair that you can't.

One RL example about what should happen to PCs who aren't prepared with many weapons.

And then I am bored at how said PC somehow manages to squeeze his 10ft pole weapons in tight curvy passages and won't have to leave them behind.

When I expect from spellcasters to have their material components with them, or the ranger to cross out arrows, and everyone to count his weight and trail rations, then something like that I can't ignore.

A Fighter who tries to use reach weapons will find himself useless in many situations, if he refuses to spend more money to keep up with different gear, transporting methods etc. Fighters are for longwords after all.

 

[Empirate]

Do you require a move action to draw a reach weapon? A player in my group recently insisted that it wouldn't take an action, since the reach weapon cannot be feasibly carried other than in your hand(s). Since it is already in hand, a reach weapon must never be drawn. However, it permanently occupies one hand now, so climbing, riding etc. with a reach weapon would be largely impossible...

 

[kitcik]

Longsword, you say?

The vertical reach of a medium character per the Jump skill is 8 feet.

A longsword is 3 feet long.

Therefore, you cannot freely swing a longsword in an area with a 10' ceiling.

Therefore, the character will actively try to avoid swinging overhead, although they forget and/or be forced to in the heat of battle.

This can be worked in by changing the automatic miss from 1 to 1-3 with the entire range being a fumble range - whoops, I just clanged my longsword off the ceiling, my bad. Then you would need to also determine whether the longsword breaks based on its hardness in comparison to the ceiling and the strength of the character swinging it.

Casters, on the other hand, rarely suffer from these difficulties and can generally operate quite well in confined spaces.

 

[Empirate]

Depends on how big their components/foci are...