Spears not having a range?

[Tellerve]

Anyone else think spears should have maybe dagger range? Or would that be considered just too good? I mean, in previous editions we had both javelins and spears being able to be thrown. Spears not as far of course, but they could be, now? Nada. I find that somewhat odd.

Tellerve

 

[Foxen]

This incarnation of "spear" is probably a heavier melee only version, not one that is meant to be thrown. That's my take on it anyhow. And the Javelin is now the "throwable" version of "spears" etc. Not all spears in ancient times were thrown.

Fox

 

[cangrejoide]

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!

....What?

 

[Tellerve]

Yeah, see your point. Just hoping I guess

I'm going to be playing a character who uses a spear, for thematic and role-playing purposes and trying to fight the urge to have to use a longsword or spend the feat for bastard sword.

Tellerve

EDIT: wow, I got the brittany boy/girl child for my apparent whining? Harsh.

 

[Mengu]

EDIT: wow, I got the brittany boy/girl child for my apparent whining? Harsh.

Maybe you're just missing the (pretty bad) joke. What's her last name?

 

[The Little Raven]

A melee spear that is used as a ranged weapon would be considered an Improvised Ranged Weapon, as detailed on page 219.

 

[BASHMAN]

It is stupid, but by the rules, you cannot throw a spear. I would say that the thrown range is 3/6-- that way it is not nearly as good as a javelin, or even a dagger, but not as logic-defyingly asinine as 0 range. I'd just like to see someone throw a dagger 50 feet-- then see if they cannot throw a spear farther.

 

[The Little Raven]

It is stupid, but by the rules, you cannot throw a spear.

Good thing, then, that you can throw a melee spear (as a Ranged Improvised Weapon). The range is 5/10, the damage is 1d4, and the proficiency bonus is n/a, because it's not balanced for throwing.

 

[TK Lafours]

It is stupid, but by the rules, you cannot throw a spear. I would say that the thrown range is 3/6-- that way it is not nearly as good as a javelin, or even a dagger, but not as logic-defyingly asinine as 0 range. I'd just like to see someone throw a dagger 50 feet-- then see if they cannot throw a spear farther.

Didn't the post just before yours state that you can throw a spear? And a few posts before that recognize the difference between a spear designed to be thrown (javelin) and a heavier spear that is balanced and intended to be used in melee combat? So yes, you can throw a spear and you can throw a lighter spear (javelin) quite far according to the rules.

 

[BASHMAN]

Didn't the post just before yours state that you can throw a spear? And a few posts before that recognize the difference between a spear designed to be thrown (javelin) and a heavier spear that is balanced and intended to be used in melee combat? So yes, you can throw a spear and you can throw a lighter spear (javelin) quite far according to the rules.

No-- the post said that Javelins (aka throwing spears) can be thrown, but that regular spears (aka heavy spears) are only meant for fighting-- and by the laws of D&D physics they cannot be thrown. If you try to throw one, and have a jerk for a DM, it falls to the ground in your square...

Edit: Actually I logged out and checked, and yes there was a post there before mine-- but it was on my ignore list so I didn't see it initially. I still however don't agree with that ruling as being at all fair-- though it is better than the spear falling at your feet.

Having a melee spear be throwable 3/6 would be perfectly reasonable and in no way unbalancing-- other than making people count to numbers that are not in increments of 5, I don't see the problem.

 

[The Little Raven]

No-- the post said that Javelins (aka throwing spears) can be thrown, but that regular spears (aka heavy spears) are only meant for fighting-- and by the laws of D&D physics they cannot be thrown. If you try to throw one, and have a jerk for a DM, it falls to the ground in your square...

He probably has me on his ignore list, so he won't know that he's completely wrong until someone either quotes my posts or reposts the same information.

 

[Tellerve]

Maybe you're just missing the (pretty bad) joke. What's her last name?

Yeah, pretty bad joke.

So, yeah, you can throw the spear as an improvised weapon, but then that isn't so great either. I guess I could use a javelin and then throw it if I wanted. Just thinking about 300 a bit here. Those were the good ol' spears of old, good at melee stabbin' but you could chuck 'em well if you needed.

Tellerve

 

[The Little Raven]

So, yeah, you can throw the spear as an improvised weapon, but then that isn't so great either.

Which is the point. A weapon balanced for melee combat will not be as effective as one balanced for throwing. Contrary to what Braveheart and 300 taught us, throwing a melee weapon isn't all that effective.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It's funny. Under 3e, there were complaints that there was no dedicated-melee 'stabbing spear.' Now we have one. The javelin is a full-fledged spear, now, able to be used in melee to full effect and also thrown - it's more like the 3e shortspear, really.

Throwable spear = javelin. It's even in the spear group, so all your spear-related feats and exploits work with it.

It is sad that its a simple weapon, though. It'd be cool if there were a martial or superior one-handed spear, preferably two: one heavy thrown, one reach.

 

[TK Lafours]

It is sad that its a simple weapon, though. It'd be cool if there were a martial or superior one-handed spear, preferably two: one heavy thrown, one reach.

Maybe we'll see a Trident in the martial book.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

If you try to throw one, and have a jerk for a DM, it falls to the ground in your square...

I don't think I'd be comfortable judging any system by those criteria, because with a jerk DM I can't picture even showing up.

Having a melee spear be throwable 3/6 would be perfectly reasonable and in no way unbalancing-- other than making people count to numbers that are not in increments of 5, I don't see the problem.

Seems perfectly reasonable. If you don't like the javelin rules being used for "spears balanced for throwing", that'd way of handling it would work fine.

 

[BASHMAN]

Seems perfectly reasonable. If you don't like the javelin rules being used for "spears balanced for throwing", that'd way of handling it would work fine.

No-- javelins are spears BETTER balanced for throwing. Another thought would be that if a weapon "should" be throwable, but isn't and you don't want to use the craptastic improvised weapon rules suggestion, perhaps the weapon has a range of 0/5 so if you throw it at all, you have the -2 penalty. A spear that wasn't made to be thrown being able to chucked 25' w/ -2 to hit as a trade off seems pretty darn fair to me. Far better than -2 to hit and it only does d4 dmg.

 

[kouk]

How about just making up a Superior Weapon Proficiency for being able to throw a Spear like a Javelin? Or maybe just range 5/10.

Making up feats can solve almost everything

 

[jdpacheco]

Good thing, then, that you can throw a melee spear (as a Ranged Improvised Weapon). The range is 5/10, the damage is 1d4, and the proficiency bonus is n/a, because it's not balanced for throwing.

How about just making up a Superior Weapon Proficiency for being able to throw a Spear like a Javelin? Or maybe just range 5/10.

Making up feats can solve almost everything

I would actually treat it, as The Little Raven recommends, as an improvised weapon, but I would still have it do Spear damage... End result: You can throw it... you can even hit them with the damaging end... but you ain't never gonna be that good at it since it ain't designed that way, so no Proficiency Bonus.

Making up a superior weapon proficiency for it... seems kinda silly. The real intent of the Spear, in my opinion, in 4e, is more of an Eastern (yes, it existed in the West, but Martial Arts movies feature them heavily) type of spear, which would not be thrown, and is more like a quarterstaff with a sharp stabby bit at the end.