Special Conversion Thread: Plants

[Cleon]

Dividing the vortex stuff into two abilities is probably a good way to go.

Figured out one place we used this ability before: the monstrous daddy long-legs. I think this is actually a good fit, with some renaming:

That seems fiddly. When I converted an Opiliones I just said you needed a 10 ft. reach weapon to hit the body or make a DC15 Jump check.

20% miss chance plus DR seem mean enough? Or do you want full concealment in effect?

Anyhow, getting back to the Weed Giant. I thought about a 20% miss chance but the original AD&D gave attacks a 90% miss chance, so that just seemed too weedy.

Although I do like the idea of making some kind of skill check to reduce the Concealment...

Concealed Brain (Ex): Weapon attacks will only harm a weed giant if they hit its brain, which constantly moves about the core of the monster. Attacks have a 50% miss chance, or 20% if the attacker succeeds at a DC X Search or DC X Knowledge (nature) check to spot clues to the brain's current location. If the attack misses it simply cuts or bruises a few strands of weed, which causes no harm to the weed giant.

EDIT: Upon reflection, I'd prefer if the skill check cancelled out the miss chance. It just seems easier.

I'm not sure what to set the DC at. Since it's skill-based my original thought was 10+HD+stat or 15+HD+stat, but we could do the more standard 10+HD/2+stat. I'm not sure whether it should be Dexterity-based (since its brain's moving about) or Constitution-based (since it's a vital organ). I'm leaning toward 15+HD+Dex - which would make the skill check DC17 - but I'm not that strongly committed to it.

Revising...

Concealed Brain (Ex): A weed giant's brain is the only organ vulnerable to weapons, hits to any other part of its body only cut or bruise a few strands of weed, which causes no harm to the weed giant. The weed giant's brain is buried deep inside its body and is constantly moving, giving it total concealment (50% miss chance). An attacker can ignore this concealment if they succeed at a DC X Search or Knowledge (nature) check - they must roll separately for each attack. The DC is [Dexterity or Constitution?]-based.

 

[Shade]

I fixed the strangler with Cleon's suggestion.

The daddy longlegs ability was based on precedent from another freakishly long-legged creature, although I forget it's name now (one of the unique Realms baddies).

Anyway, the concealed brain bit seems a good start, but I'm not on-board for a skill check (imagine that!) Other creatures that gain concealment due to motion/airy bodies don't allow skill checks to overcome it, so I see no reason to do so here.

For example...

Airy (Ex): Since a plague brush is constantly turning over and its anatomy is made up of a (relatively) small amount of plant matter and lots of empty space, it is difficult to know where to attack the creature. Any melee or ranged attack with a piercing weapon directed at a plage brush has a 20% miss chance. The blow or missle may pass through the creature's body without harming it. Even a true seeing effect is useless for determining where and how to strike the creature.

 

[Cleon]

Anyway, the concealed brain bit seems a good start, but I'm not on-board for a skill check (imagine that!) Other creatures that gain concealment due to motion/airy bodies don't allow skill checks to overcome it, so I see no reason to do so here.

That's OK, I'd be happy with a 50% concealment.

Concealed Brain (Ex): A weed giant's brain is its only organ vulnerable to weapons. Any melee or ranged attack that hits a weed giant has a 50% chance of missing the brain, either passing through the body or cutting or bruising a few strands of weed, which causes no harm to the weed giant. Even a true seeing effect is useless for determining where and how to strike the creature's brain.

 

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

What, if any, of the shambler's abilities should we retain?

Constrict (Ex): A shambler deals 2d6+7 points of damage with a successful grapple check.

Immunity to Electricity (Ex): Shamblers take no damage from electricity. Instead, any electricity attack used against a shambler temporarily grants it 1d4 points of Constitution. The shambler loses these points at the rate of 1 per hour.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a shambler must hit with both slam attacks. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Skills: Shamblers have a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, and Move Silently checks. They have a +12 racial bonus on Hide checks when in a swampy or forested area.

 

[Cleon]

Added to Homebrews.

The original weed giant only had 1 slam attack, not 2 like the current Homebrew.

However I think it works better with two slams.

EDIT: Oh, and it's still got "Temperate swamps" in Environment. We should change that to "Temperate or warm aquatic".:ENDEDIT

What, if any, of the shambler's abilities should we retain?

Constrict (Ex): A shambler deals 2d6+7 points of damage with a successful grapple check.

Immunity to Electricity (Ex): Shamblers take no damage from electricity. Instead, any electricity attack used against a shambler temporarily grants it 1d4 points of Constitution. The shambler loses these points at the rate of 1 per hour.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a shambler must hit with both slam attacks. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Skills: Shamblers have a +4 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, and Move Silently checks. They have a +12 racial bonus on Hide checks when in a swampy or forested area.

I like everything except for the immunity to electricity.

Improved Grab and Constrict is a good fit to their weedy limbs, and explains why if they hit with their attack they don't wash away their victim.

The skills look very apt for a plant monster that hides amidst seaweed, just change the "in a swampy or forested area" to "in an area of seaweed".

 

[Shade]

Updated.

I guess we need to work on the "water buffeting" power. Here are some sources for possible inspiration:

Water Jet (Su): As a standard action, an avenging spirit can create a tremendously powerful 30-foot line of water. Any creature in the area of the line takes 2d6 points of damage (Reflex DC 21 negates). A creature failing the saving throw must succeed on a Strength check or a Balance check (DC 10 + damage dealt) or be knocked prone by the force of the blast. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Vortex Maw (Ex): A mastodonsaurus can open its mouth so quickly that it creates a powerful suction. All creatures within a 15-foot cone must make Strength checks opposed by the mastodonsaurus's Strength check (+8 for a standard mastodonsaurus), with the same modifiers as a bull rush. If the mastodonsaurus beats a creature's Strength check result, it pulls the victim 5 feet closer to its jaws. For each 5 points by which its check result is greater than a victim's check result, the mastodonsaurus pulls the victim an additional 5 feet closer. The victim provokes attacks of opportunity if it is moved.

 

[Cleon]

Updated.

I guess we need to work on the "water buffeting" power. Here are some sources for possible inspiration:

Water Jet (Su): As a standard action, an avenging spirit can create a tremendously powerful 30-foot line of water. Any creature in the area of the line takes 2d6 points of damage (Reflex DC 21 negates). A creature failing the saving throw must succeed on a Strength check or a Balance check (DC 10 + damage dealt) or be knocked prone by the force of the blast. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Vortex Maw (Ex): A mastodonsaurus can open its mouth so quickly that it creates a powerful suction. All creatures within a 15-foot cone must make Strength checks opposed by the mastodonsaurus's Strength check (+8 for a standard mastodonsaurus), with the same modifiers as a bull rush. If the mastodonsaurus beats a creature's Strength check result, it pulls the victim 5 feet closer to its jaws. For each 5 points by which its check result is greater than a victim's check result, the mastodonsaurus pulls the victim an additional 5 feet closer. The victim provokes attacks of opportunity if it is moved.

Of those two the second looks the closest. I was also thinking about borrowing a few bit from the Awesome Blow or Snatch feats.

We'll also need to come up with a good name for the ability.

How about this for a first draft:

Expelling Wave (Ex): A weed giant creates a powerful wave whenever it makes a slam attack, which can literally wash away its enemies. Each wave affects a 10-foot cone (15-foot for a Huge weed giant). If the weed giant's slam attack hits the attack's target is not washed away, because the weed giant automatically uses Improved Grab to attempt a grapple. All other creatures within the area (including the slam attack's target if the weed giant missed) must make Strength checks opposed by the weed giant's Strength check (+9 for a standard weed giant), with the same modifiers as a bull rush. If the weed giant wins it washes the creature 5 ft. away, for each 5 points by which its Strength check is greater than an opponent's Strength check it washes the opponent an additional 5 feet further away.

 

[Shade]

That looks like a good start. Should the movement incur attacks of opportunity?

 

[Cleon]

That looks like a good start. Should the movement incur attacks of opportunity?

Let's just say no, to keep it simple.

I wouldn't think the weed giant that makes the attack would be able to AoO the folk it washes away.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

Retain the skills and feats of the shambler?

A weed giant's body has an x-foot girth and is about 12 feet tall when the creature stands erect. It weighs about x pounds. (A shambler’s body has an 8-foot girth and is about 6 feet tall when the creature stands erect. It weighs about 3,800 pounds.)