Special Focus for Cloud of Knifes (PHBII)

[Joker]

This post has two uses.

1.) I have a few questions regarding the spell Cloud of Knifes (Personal, 1 rnd/ level, each round as a free action fire off a knife that deals d6+(1/3 lvls, max+5) per knife.

2.) I have an item that enhances this spell that I would like you to take a look at. Specifically the pricing.

Part 1

1a.) If you are being threatened when firing a knife, do you incur an Attack of Opportunity?

1b.) Can you enhance the Material Component with, say, a Magic Weapon or Gr. Magic Weapon spell and gain the benefits of one of those spells?

Part 2

I am playing a Favored Soul and when he is high enough level I want to cast Persistant Cloud of Knifes but I don't want to walk around with 14400 knifes around my head most of the time. So I set out to create a focus (a knife) that I would be able to shoot off every round as a free action and that would return to an orbit around my head at the end of round.

I started out with +1 knife of returning costing 8000gp.

And that's how far I got. I figure enhancing it to do what I want it to would cost somewhere between 3000 and 6000 extra plus the cost of masterwork and whatever specialness (I made it a word) I want to give it (in terms of decorative gold and other pricy materials). Perhaps the cost would be doubled as per the rules for items without limit but as this isn't really used as an item but as a component for a spell I am not very sure about that.


Thanks in advance.

 

[Joker]

This isn't a bump but more of a desperate attempt to get more attention.

:\, yeah.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm a little confused on what you want...so you basically want the mechanics of cloud of knives, but you want for flavor a single knife that just keeps returning to you?

In that case, just tell your dm you want the effect to look the way you want it. As long as the mechanics are the same, dnd recommends making the magic look anyway you want. You could make the spell put a dagger tatoo on your forehead that can shoot shadow daggers at people, whatever.

 

[Plane Sailing]

1a.) If you are being threatened when firing a knife, do you incur an Attack of Opportunity?

1b.) Can you enhance the Material Component with, say, a Magic Weapon or Gr. Magic Weapon spell and gain the benefits of one of those spells?

Obviously not definitive answers, but I'd say

1a). No AoO. You wouldn't incur one for casting a quickened spell, nor for most other free actions that I can think of. I wouldn't apply one here.

1b) I wouldn't say so. If the spell intended it, it would have included it in the description.

Cheers

 

[smootrk]

I will second mr. Stalker0. I do not like many of the descriptions that are listed with spells nowadays. I ususally visualize spells differently, based on the character. You might want to create some sort of "knife" motiff character, but I like a fire mage.

With my fire mage, I might say the same spell evokes a ring of molten metal (or hot mercury type of look) that orbits my character while the spell is in effect. When a knife flies off, a piece of the 'metal' branches off and flies towards the target, cooling to a knife-like shape. Since nothing in the spell changes other than the description of the visual effect - the DM should allow the variant.

This kind of flavor change only enhances the game and gives your character more depth, and when your DM does the same kind of changes for his NPC's it helps to minimize any metagaming.

Now, when you make actual changes to the mechanics of the spell, such as Focus, Materials, Enhancing qualities... you are making changes that could and should change many of the variables of the spell - at the whim of your DM. I would stick to just descriptive changes.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Obviously not definitive answers, but I'd say

1a). No AoO. You wouldn't incur one for casting a quickened spell, nor for most other free actions that I can think of. I wouldn't apply one here.

Cheers

I think it depends on the wording of the spell. Specifically, is it considered a ranged (touch) attack? If so, then yes they would incur an AoO.

It's like casting Scorching Ray while threatened. First you provoke an AoO for the casting of the spell (unless you cast Defensively), then you provoke an AoO for making a ranged attack (as normal). Of course, the opponent would need Combat Reflexes to pull them both off.

 

[Joker]

The thing is my DM swears by the RAW if it hampers/limits our (high-level, high powered) PC's. With the current Cloud of Knifes visual I would be hardpressed to be accepted in any social setting.

 

[shilsen]

The thing is my DM swears by the RAW if it hampers/limits our (high-level, high powered) PC's. With the current Cloud of Knifes visual I would be hardpressed to be accepted in any social setting.

I don't think your DM is alone in that. I would do the same. Considering the spell as written has a 1 rd/lvl duration, I don't think it was intended to be a protective spell of choice when going out on the town.

 

[Bront]

1a.) If you are being threatened when firing a knife, do you incur an Attack of Opportunity?

1b.) Can you enhance the Material Component with, say, a Magic Weapon or Gr. Magic Weapon spell and gain the benefits of one of those spells?

Part 2

I am playing a Favored Soul and when he is high enough level I want to cast Persistant Cloud of Knifes but I don't want to walk around with 14400 knifes around my head most of the time. So I set out to create a focus (a knife) that I would be able to shoot off every round as a free action and that would return to an orbit around my head at the end of round.

I started out with +1 knife of returning costing 8000gp.

And that's how far I got. I figure enhancing it to do what I want it to would cost somewhere between 3000 and 6000 extra plus the cost of masterwork and whatever specialness (I made it a word) I want to give it (in terms of decorative gold and other pricy materials). Perhaps the cost would be doubled as per the rules for items without limit but as this isn't really used as an item but as a component for a spell I am not very sure about that.


Thanks in advance.

Part 1:
1a) No, it's a free action and requires no actual motion on your party.

1b) No, the knives are already magical (Hense the +1-5 bonus to damage and the overcoming of magic damage resistance). Silver is the only thing that helps, as stated in the spell. Technicaly you can use any knife (you only need one per casting), but using a magical one will destroy it.

Part 2:
Note the answer to part 1b)

 

[MarkB]

I don't think your DM is alone in that. I would do the same. Considering the spell as written has a 1 rd/lvl duration, I don't think it was intended to be a protective spell of choice when going out on the town.

I'd agree with this. Changing the spell's flavour to allow the caster to effectively carry around a large number of concealed weapons ready to be flung at a moment's notice increases the spell's power. If the caster wants to enter an area where it would be rude to carry naked blades, this isn't the spell to let him sneak weapons in.