Speculating on Claw/Claw/Bite

[BASHMAN]

So, hearing that iterative attacks are gone, it stands to reason that players and creatures will have less attacks-- typically one per round. However, dual wielding has always been the way to get around such a limitation. With the "monsters don't use the same rules as PCs" aspect, I have a feeling that Claw/Claw/Bite will remain.

Essentially the monster will be "dual wielding" its claws-- with some small penalty -2 or something to hit for that (if any-- since he is a monster, perhaps he has no dual wielding penalty). Then he will have a special ability-- a swift action bite attack that can only be used if both claw attacks hit.

Does this sound like the 4e version we can expect?

 

[hobgoblin]

for some reason i always had trouble wrapping my head around those natural attack rules. maybe because i could never find somewhere that had them clearly spelled out, unlike the extra attacks that a PC gets when the attack bonus hit a specific number...

 

[Stalker0]

for some reason i always had trouble wrapping my head around those natural attack rules. maybe because i could never find somewhere that had them clearly spelled out, unlike the extra attacks that a PC gets when the attack bonus hit a specific number...

Amen, I personally would simply love it if they did this:

Attack with claws and bite: +10

That's it, no 3 attacks, just tell me with what body parts they are using to rip up my pcs, but I don't need 3 attacks.

 

[Jhaelen]

Amen, I personally would simply love it if they did this:

Attack with claws and bite: +10

That's it, no 3 attacks, just tell me with what body parts they are using to rip up my pcs, but I don't need 3 attacks.

Hmm, I'm not sure I'd like this.

I'd be happier with an attack of claws OR bite, both with different side-effects.
That way you'd have different tactical options when running the critter.

 

[Stalker0]

I'd be happier with an attack of claws OR bite, both with different side-effects.
That way you'd have different tactical options when running the critter.

That would be fine too as far as I'm concerned.

 

[WyzardWhately]

Spreading a creature's damage-dealing capacity out over three lesser attacks rather than one big one tends to make it more predictable in combat - exactly the kind of thing you want to do if you're after game balance.

 

[Exen Trik]

Hmm, I'm not sure I'd like this.

I'd be happier with an attack of claws OR bite, both with different side-effects.
That way you'd have different tactical options when running the critter.

Why not both? Have one attack for a full on clawing biting assault, one for an accurate one claw swipe, another for a two claw rake, another for a biting grab move, or whatever abilities and tactics that monster uses. Perhaps not so many for a single beastie, but just take a few combinations of attacks and moves, reduce them to simple actions and that should be fine. It's like giving each creature two or three martial powers.

 

[Hairfoot]

What I've never liked is that the level of abstraction in attacks changes dependent on circumstance.

A 3rd level PC's single attack per round includes dodges, parries, feints, barges, failed stabs, kicks to the groin and maybe a decent strike. Meanwhile, a monster with a claw/bite attack gets its attacks neatly divided up into sections. It's the same with dual weapon wielders.

I'd like to see all multiple attacks reduced to a single attack with relevant bonuses and penalties.

 

[olshanski]

The concern I have is the "improved grab" style monsters.

Say a huge bestie with improved grab has bitten the party halfling and is holding on, then that bite attack should not be available for other attacks... its combat effectiveness should be reduced because it is already holding or pinning someone.

I like the fact that you can have a 20,000 leagues under the sea, where a kraken comes up and grabs a few sailors in 2 of its tentacles while the other two tentacles keep reaching around for more victims. With 3.5 this mechanic is built in.

 

[IceFractal]

Also, it gives DMs an "out" from excessive PKing if they need it. For instance, if the gryphon takes its first claw attack and drops someone to -5, then it can redirect its other attacks against different targets, which arguably makes sense for the monster to do, and lets the DM decide whether or not to kill the character.

If it was one attack dealing claw+claw+bite damage, the character would probably go straight to -30, and there you go, dead PC whether you want it or not. And no way out except really obvious fudging or Deus ex Machina.