Speed Weapons And Haste

[MasterOfHeaven]

Alright, if someone can point me to a specific, official ruling on this, I'd really appreciate it. I know that it says in the SRD that Haste does not stack with Speed weapons. However, there is some debate in my group over what exactly this means. I think it means simply that you cannot get the bonus attack during the partial action granted by Haste, but it's being argued that if you have a Speed weapon Haste simply doesn't work on you. Which is correct?

 

[Taloras]

Heres what I would say. Speed gives you an extra partial attack, right? Haste gives you an extra partial action. Speed has nothing to do with the character, who would still get an extra partial action from the haste spell (he doesnt have to use that partial action from speed, i dont think). He can EITHER take the partial attack from speed or take another partial action as per the haste spell, but he doesnt get 2 partial actions. Am I correct, rules-lawyers?

 

[Dimwhit]

On pg 187 of the DMG, it says that Speed is not cumulative with haste. It also says that it does not grant the benefits of a haste spell. It does not, however, say that it overrides the haste spell. So, you can be hasted and use a speed weapon. They just don't add together.

 

[Uller]

This was hottly contested sometime ago. The Sage said that during your turn, you can use the partial action from haste or the extra attack from a weapon of speed, but not both.

Caliban interprits it to mean that you cannot use the benefit from a weapon of speed _during_ your partial action from haste. His reasoning is that as the weapon of speed description stands, you can benefit from two weapons of speed in the same round, but not from a weapon of speed and haste spell and that doesn't make much sense.

I think that sums up both sides of the previous arguement. For the record, I'm with the sage on this one. The intention is that you can't use weapon of speed and the extra partial action from haste in the same round.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

The letter of the rules merely states that the use of a weapon of speed and the use of haste do not stack.

If you take this viewpoint in the strictest sense - I would go with Caliban's interpretation.

However, if you consider "bonus actions" as all part and parcel of a given "round" - you don't do this.

I think the letter of the rules agrees more with Caliban than the sage on this one.

 

[MasterOfHeaven]

Thanks for the replies. I think I'm going to go with Calibans interpetation, as it fits as my original line of thought, and I generally hold Calibans rules interpetations in a higher regard than the Sages.

I think if I were to institute the Sages ruling, people in my games wouldn't ever use the Speed enchantment on their weapons, since they use Haste for all the big battles they fight.

 

[kreynolds]

For the record, I'm with the sage on this one. The intention is that you can't use weapon of speed and the extra partial action from haste in the same round.

Same here. Actually, I was the one who took this initial stand in the first place, when I first joined the boards no less, and managed to piss off every single "old-timer" here. Apparently, the Sage backing me up was a bad thing.

 

[Jeremy]

<grins, remembers that>

Whaddya mean you *disagree* with Caliban!?

----*psssst* He's new... Check the post count.

Ah. Poor n00b. He'll catch on.

 

[kreynolds]

<grins, remembers that>

Whaddya mean you *disagree* with Caliban!?

----*psssst* He's new... Check the post count.

Ah. Poor n00b. He'll catch on.

Yep! Something like that. Unfortunately, I never did "catch" on. I'm too stuborn and tend to think for myself, even though it gets me into trouble.