Spell Casting Prodigy (FRCS)

[hong]

Seems like they just could've made a side bar saying something like, 'greater spell focus is a bit unbalanced when combined with any number of things, so it probably shouldnt be allowed in most campaigns. Use greater at your own risk, and it wont be core'

Ah, you mean like "spellcasting prodigy is a bit unbalanced when combined with any number of things, so it probably shouldnt be allowed in most campaigns. Use spellcasting prodigy at your own risk, and it wont be core".

 

[Darklone]

No, I guess he means something like the Channeling in the KPG where they write "DMs are adviced to use with caution" and other stuff like "hey, it's unbalanced, use it for style only"...

 

[Gez]

For SF/GSF, I would use the +2/+3.

I think there's a potential problem in 3.5. In 3.0, there were a lot of feats and prestige classes that allowed to raise the save DC. So, people made combos to get very high DCs. Then, they screamed bloody murder that these combos were possible, brokenmunchkinshaft.

So, 3.5 nerfed SF and GSF, SCP, and replaced most of the PrC's "+1 to DC" by "+1 to caster level". Now it seems possible to make combos that will reach impossibly high caster levels, and bypass every SR, and 4.0 will nerf them all.

Where's the rolleyes smilie when you need it?

 

[Darklone]

Actually I think that's good management... keep your customers unhappy and you can already prepare for the next update

 

[Jeff Wilder]

What'm I missing? Why do people keep saying Spellcasting Prodigy is only "maybe" useful for gaining extra spells? I can't see any situation in which it doesn't provide at least one bonus spell, and for my 14th level, INT 23 evoker, it provides two.

 

[Darklone]

Well, I guess they don't like it cause it's most often a low level slot

 

[Henry]

Spellcasting prodigy was on the borderline of overpowered in my opinion, kind of like the Spellfire feat. Remember that the FRCS combined with Tome and Blood was responsible for Caster DC's getting regularly into the 30's by 10th level - a range at which DARNED FEW can resist the spells in question.

I think it's better to reduce the power of some of these things so that feats like heightened spell become more valuable, and still give equivalent foes at least a 50/50 chance of beating a save.

Spell Focus at +2 isn't too bad, just as Andy Collins said - but stacking Greater SF with it was a mistake.

With Spellcasting Prodigy and SF alone, I can make my first level wizard's charm person saves a DC 17 - which a CR 1 creature with a good will save will still fail 60 to 80% of the time. Take him to 3rd level, and add greater spell focus, and his tasha's laughter spells become DC 20 - enough to fail an average of 75% of the time. And it gets worse from there - a foe would have to have both an 18 WIS and good will saves just to succeed HALF the time.

So it gets worse, and quickly - hence the need for reduction of both SF and SCP.

 

[Marshall]

Spellcasting prodigy was on the borderline of overpowered in my opinion, kind of like the Spellfire feat. Remember that the FRCS combined with Tome and Blood was responsible for Caster DC's getting regularly into the 30's by 10th level - a range at which DARNED FEW can resist the spells in question.

Those numbers only came into play by stacking Spell Powers, from say EnSavant or ShAdept. Once they nerfed SP, deservedly so, they had allready fixed the spell DC problems. The changes to SF, GSF, and ScP are overkill.

I think it's better to reduce the power of some of these things so that feats like heightened spell become more valuable, and still give equivalent foes at least a 50/50 chance of beating a save.

Fine, but you have to go thru the book and give every single spell some form of effect on a successful save. The whole system is predicated on the idea that spells do what they are supposed to do a majority of the time. If you take that away, you nerf spellcasters into a support and buff only role evern worse than the current situation.

Spell Focus at +2 isn't too bad, just as Andy Collins said - but stacking Greater SF with it was a mistake.

One feat +2, 2 feats +3, 3 Feats +4. Thats a MAJOR investment to boost the DCs of one school.

The REAL fix would have been to drop GSF to +1 and add a Lvl 8 or so prereq to it. THEN, it would be a counter to the ubiquitous Cloak of Resistance.

With Spellcasting Prodigy and SF alone, I can make my first level wizard's charm person saves a DC 17 - which a CR 1 creature with a good will save will still fail 60 to 80% of the time. Take him to 3rd level, and add greater spell focus, and his tasha's laughter spells become DC 20 - enough to fail an average of 75% of the time. And it gets worse from there - a foe would have to have both an 18 WIS and good will saves just to succeed HALF the time.

So it gets worse, and quickly - hence the need for reduction of both SF and SCP.

The Charm save is low. 10 + 1(spell lvl) + 4(stat) + 1(Scp) + 2(SF) = 18
Any non-clr or mnk is going to have a max save of +3 making the fail rate at 70%+
The thing is, this hasn't changed much in 3.5. 10 + 1 + 4 + 1(SF) + 1(GSF) still yields a 17. Dropping the rate to only 65%. The difference here is that the 3.5 char is done. His only further options are statboosts and higher level spells(thru Heighten or not). So when the target is sporting his +5 CoR the spellcaster loses 25% of that failure rate.
The 3.0 guy has the head start AND GSF to fall back on, and remember these are targetting WEAK saves.

If you want 3.0 ScP in 3.5, give SF a Spellcraft 5(or Spellcaster 3) prereq and a +2 bonus and Give GSF a Spellcraft 10(or Spellcaster 8) prereq.

 

[Gez]

Charm person is charm nobody anyway... NPCs failed their save twice (grand total) over the course of 8 levels...

 

[Darklone]

Looks like I'm too nice to my PCs. The old group loved to use their psion charm person power... telepaths rock.