Quasqueton
First Post
And isn't that the original complaint? Magic is too cheap?
Quasqueton
Spell Costs in PHB Too Low?
- Thread starter ptolemy18
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Quasqueton
painandgreed
First Post
If anything, I think spells costs are too expensive. For a non-adventurer, 10 GP times spell caster level for a 1st level spell is a huge amount of money. While adventurers might be able to afford them, even nobles would have issues with paying these rates, particularly for the work it required to cast. A cleric who charged by the book would not get any takers from the local community and probably be run out of town for charging prices nobody could afford while people's family and realatives died off when they could have been saved.
IMC, each community has a cleric or in urban settings belongs to a church. Each family tithes 10% of their earnings to their church and in return get free healing. The prices int he book are for non-church members who have come into town and seek to drain off the resources from the community that actually supports the cleric. Of course, I allow PCs to belong to a particular church if they promise to tithe 10% of their earnings and in return get free clerical spells within reason, as a 1st level church member may not rate a Raise but a 10th level who brings in thousands of gold every month for tithes would. The church might even send people out to recover the body.
Wizards are another case as they are not typically supported by the community (again IMC). The price as listed is for the independantly wealthy wizards who don't want to be disturbed unless it is worth their while. For the less affluent spell caster who survives by hanging out a shingle and casting detects, read magics, and mends, the price is more like a tenth of listed. However, the price goes back up the second they get the hint of anything dangerous. A lot of this is RP as unknown adventurers bringing things out of the blue are sure to get charged book prices because who knows what they have and what it might do, while known members of the community with safer items would rate the lower charges. Once I feel that NPC has developed a rampart with the adventurers and a measure of trust, not to mention if they're spending lots of money on higher level spells, they probably won't sweat the costs of a few 0th and 1st level spells at all.
IMC, each community has a cleric or in urban settings belongs to a church. Each family tithes 10% of their earnings to their church and in return get free healing. The prices int he book are for non-church members who have come into town and seek to drain off the resources from the community that actually supports the cleric. Of course, I allow PCs to belong to a particular church if they promise to tithe 10% of their earnings and in return get free clerical spells within reason, as a 1st level church member may not rate a Raise but a 10th level who brings in thousands of gold every month for tithes would. The church might even send people out to recover the body.
Wizards are another case as they are not typically supported by the community (again IMC). The price as listed is for the independantly wealthy wizards who don't want to be disturbed unless it is worth their while. For the less affluent spell caster who survives by hanging out a shingle and casting detects, read magics, and mends, the price is more like a tenth of listed. However, the price goes back up the second they get the hint of anything dangerous. A lot of this is RP as unknown adventurers bringing things out of the blue are sure to get charged book prices because who knows what they have and what it might do, while known members of the community with safer items would rate the lower charges. Once I feel that NPC has developed a rampart with the adventurers and a measure of trust, not to mention if they're spending lots of money on higher level spells, they probably won't sweat the costs of a few 0th and 1st level spells at all.
painandgreed
First Post
Quasqueton said:
Hookers and blow.
Typically, the PCs I've seen (myself included) tend to be big spenders. Buying drinks for the house rather than deal with the change from a GP. Staying in the oppulant several GP a night rooms while in the city. Buying bottles of elvish wine that cost more than a rich commoner's yearly income. Given the chance, PCs will blow lots of money on fine drink, exotic foods, and new clothes. Add in some role play elements such a the king having a ball for his daughter and tell them how many hundreds of GP other nobles are spending on their outfits, and I bet you'll see the PCs outspend them.
frankthedm
First Post
Henry said:
I assumed those costs 1. makes sure your treasure level stay with you new lower level. 2. makes death eat up party resourses at higher levels, even if not party levels.
IronWolf
blank
I don't see a major issue with the prices in the PHB. If the PCs happen to be in an area where the price should be higher I raise the price. If they are in an area where it makes sense for the prices to be a little lower, I lower them. I just use the prices in the PHB as a guildeline not the be all to end all when it comes to pricing.
Of course sometimes shopkeeps in my campaigns charge more for or less for that longsword you are after too... It's all just guidelines to me, each town and location may have a reason for pricing differences.
Of course sometimes shopkeeps in my campaigns charge more for or less for that longsword you are after too... It's all just guidelines to me, each town and location may have a reason for pricing differences.
Stormrunner
Explorer
Whether magic is "cheap" depends on who you are. Even a 50gp potion is a year-and-a-half's wages for an "unskilled laborer".
An awful lot of DMs (and game designers!) write as if 1gp=$1, 1sp=10 cents, 1cp=1 penny. A few espouse the "silver standard", 1sp=$1. But look at the NPC hirelings table. If 1sp/day is the "minimum wage", then comparing it to US minimum wage we get 1sp=$40-$50. So that 50gp potion of cure light wounds costs $25,000 - as much as a car. It's a major purchase for a commoner, one which she would have to save up for years to afford. High-level magic items with prices in the 100,000gp+ range are the B-1 bombers of magic, affordable only by governments and the wealthiest guilds. There are probably no more than 1 or 2 +5 weapons in the entire kingdom, and only one staff of power in the entire continent - perhaps the entire world.
An awful lot of DMs (and game designers!) write as if 1gp=$1, 1sp=10 cents, 1cp=1 penny. A few espouse the "silver standard", 1sp=$1. But look at the NPC hirelings table. If 1sp/day is the "minimum wage", then comparing it to US minimum wage we get 1sp=$40-$50. So that 50gp potion of cure light wounds costs $25,000 - as much as a car. It's a major purchase for a commoner, one which she would have to save up for years to afford. High-level magic items with prices in the 100,000gp+ range are the B-1 bombers of magic, affordable only by governments and the wealthiest guilds. There are probably no more than 1 or 2 +5 weapons in the entire kingdom, and only one staff of power in the entire continent - perhaps the entire world.
Humanophile
First Post
RangerWickett said:
I factor a certain level of "gouge the rich" into the PHB prices, but there also is an undeniable aspect of supply and demand going on. Simply put, your parish priest only has a limited supply of spells. It goes without saying that everyone is going to want some magical assistance with something on a regular basis throughout the day. Demand far outstrips supply, so the cleric who's too friendly with his spellcasting ability will have to turn away far more people than he helps, which tends not to do good things to one's image. Some sort of system to disincline people from regular magical assistance should be in place, and that's even before you factor in any spells the cleric might prefer having on hand for his own self-preservation. (Which with D&D causes a lovely little feedback loop; the less a cleric has to worry about his own hide, the fewer spells he'll have available to help the community.)
That's not saying that if you're a faithful member of the church, you won't recieve pro-bono healing if you have a bad encounter with a housecat. But demand for magic probably outstrips supply by such a degree that casual prices have to be high.
Stormrunner said:
Untrained NPC hirelings tend to make anywhere from an illegal immegrant's to a third world worker's usual income. Comparing that to the U.S. mandated minimum wage is like comparing apples and oranges. For a better comparison, your average first level trained NPC earns nine gold per week; ten if he has the proper gear (which costs ~6 weeks wages, and pays for itself within a year.) So if we say a starting salary of 500 gold a year, magic is pricy, but not in the "diamond studded yacht" sense of the word.
Of course, we could also accept that D&D economics is out-and-out whacked, which is what I think most of this board has already done.
Does the party cleric charge the other PCs for spells? Probably not, a local cleric probably won't charge parishioners for his spells either, why? because they provide value added service to the community, in the same way a fighter goes up front and takes all the damage for a party. Raise dead may seem cheap but is a cleric seriously just going to cash it on some random stranger just because his mates fork over a 5000 GP diamond and 540 GP?
In a word....No. Clerics are responsible to both their church and their god, where as a wizard is only responsible to those he chooses to accepts as superiors or those that make him accept them as such. If the party has done the local town some favours they the clerics of the town may well waive the fee, or agree to cast pretty much any spell for them (with or without a cost), but strangers cannot expect that sort of treatment, if the local cleric does agree to cast spells for the party he/she will probably inflate the price he/she charges or require the party do something for the local town.
Sorry to bore you with my opinion
In a word....No. Clerics are responsible to both their church and their god, where as a wizard is only responsible to those he chooses to accepts as superiors or those that make him accept them as such. If the party has done the local town some favours they the clerics of the town may well waive the fee, or agree to cast pretty much any spell for them (with or without a cost), but strangers cannot expect that sort of treatment, if the local cleric does agree to cast spells for the party he/she will probably inflate the price he/she charges or require the party do something for the local town.
Sorry to bore you with my opinion
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