Spell Decheesing

[Zirnike]

Ok, I created a spell a little while ago, that my DM wanted to get opinions on before he allowed me to make it in game. As last Thursday's 'Today or tomorrow I'll post it' seems to have fallen by the wayside, I figure I'll post it and point him to the discussion.

Lesser Primal Force
Universal (or whatever anyspell is, I don't have that here)
Level: Sorc/Wis3, Bard3 (?, seems bardish)
Components: V,S
Casting time: 1 Round
Range: Personal
Effect: see text
Duration: 1 hr/level
Saving throw: Special
SR: No

LPF has several effects:

1) Caster may create a Prestidigitation effect once per round as a free action (and a second/third/whatever time as a standard action, as Prestidigitation)

2) As a standard action, caster may cast any cantrip with no attack roll or saving throw, or a saving throw of 'harmless'

3) As a standard action, caster may cast any other cantrip, but this reduces the duration of LPF by 10 minutes per use of this effect.

4) As a full round action, caster may cast any 1st level spell he knows. This ends the spell immediatly. He may not cast another spell the round the spell comes into effect, but may otherwise act normally (i.e. start full round action on rd 1, on rd 2, spell occurs, caster could fire a crossbow, but not cast magic missile).

If the first level spell has a casting time longer than one round, add one round to the casting time.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Looks fun

And balanced, too. I give it the Anabstercorian Seal of Game-A-Delic Approval.

 

[trentonjoe]

seems okay for a third level spell. I would say it is probably a little weak but Iwouldn't change it to a 2nd level spell.

 

[Zirnike]

I thought it seemed a bit weak. I designed it that way, as I have a tendancy to overpower spells more than underpower them.

I was also 'short-circuiting' my general preferance to make utility spells a lot more useful than it initially seems. For example, I can make prestidigitation act like detect invisibility by concentrating... (continual blast of confetti at the area the last strike was heading toward, and just follow the 'void' in the stream).

What if I added an effect 5? 'As a full round action, the caster can cast any second level spell he knows. This results in the spell ending, the caster being stunned for 1d4 rounds, and one point of temporary CON damage'

Or just the 1st round effect reduced the time by one hour instead of ending the spell? I was planning on doing that for later versions, anyway.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Or just the 1st round effect reduced the time by one hour instead of ending the spell? I was planning on doing that for later versions, anyway.

This is probably not a good idea. If this were to be done, it would allow a wizard to trade, at a minimum, one third level spell for any five first level spells he might need. At 20th level, the wizard could cast 20 first level spells before it would run out. Comparing this to Rary's Memnonic Enhancer which as a 4th level spell permits three specific first level spells to be prepared in advance or one specific first through third level spell to be recalled after being cast, this would be clearly superior. Even being generous and assuming that the Rary's Memnonic Enhancer's flexibility in extending to second and third level spells makes up for the fact that it only works on spells that are prepared in advance, this still grants at least five spell levels to Rary's three. And it only gets better from there whereas Rary's spell stays the same.

Now, although I've never seen it in action (hmm maybe because I've never seen it in action) I think that Rary's Memnonic Enhancer is significantly underpowered for a 4th level spell (I suspect it would be good at third level with a few changes). This change, however, would still be over the top for a spell of less than 9th level (based on the idea that innate spell allows infinite casting of a single 1st level spell for a 9th level slot and a feat but this while not permament grants an practically infinite ability to cast any 1st level spell you know (and as a wizard, that's a lot) by the time the caster reaches high levels).

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Oh, BTW. As it stands, I think it a superb example of a third level spell. It's actually almost overpowered.

Given enough time, it could wreak havoc against undead (Disrupt Undead. It could also be useful against low HD creatures (Daze) or light sensitive ones (Flare).

However, it's not primarily a combat spell. As a utility spell, it's very useful, enabling the caster to use dancing lights almost constantly (never ever ever underestimate the usefulness of Dancing Lights in a dungeon crawl or night fight--in many instances, the medium range category and 100 foot/round speed makes them more effective than darkvision for revealing enemies).

It also permits the constant use of mage hand and open/close which will make those spells useful standard precautions when examining containers, doors, objects, etc that might be trapped.

If you think you might be attacked (or if you can see saves in your future (for instance, if the party is poisoned), why not cast Resistance on everyone?

It can function almost like a persistent Detect Poison--which isn't good enough for a 4th level slot normally but would be very useful in trap detection and in intrigue type games.

It's also almost as good as a persistent Detect Magic--something that can be worth a 4th level spell slot in the right situations.

And on top of all that, it can become magic missile, unseen servant, mount, Shield, Tenser's Floating Disk, Expeditious Retreat, or Mage Armor if that's necessary.

As a player, most of my wizards who were past 5th or 6th level would prepare one or two of these spells. It may not be good enough to drop half to a third of my highest power artillery for (but fly and dispel magic are about the only utility spells that are--and they're more dual purpose spells than true utility spells) but it's definitely worth the third level slot.

 

[Zirnike]

"If this were to be done, it would allow a wizard to trade, at a minimum, one third level spell for any five first level spells he might need"

Well, 4. It takes time for the spells to be cast, so you don't have an hour to give up for that last spell.

"never ever ever underestimate the usefulness of Dancing Lights in a dungeon crawl"

That's why my first-made magic items were a pair of moon motes and a pair of silent portal disks.

As for the mods, yeah, that's what I was thinking. the progression was going to be one at 5th (primal force), 7th (greater) and 9th (pure). The fifth level was going to do the 'one hour' bit (and I didn't clarify totally...) for non-targeted/saving throw spells, 2 (or something, anyway) for targeted/saved. (oh, and the caster level is equal to the number of hours left, to limit the ability of tossing MMs around), second level to end. The 9th one would be vicious... but being able to toss around 5 fireballs for a 9th level slot isn't particularly overpowering. Anyway, it'll be a WHILE before I get that high, so I have time to balance it out more (gotta get above 2nd level cleric first...)