D&D 5E (2024) Spell Fire Smiter. Ultimate Smite.

[Zardnaar]

How does Paladin 3 change that? Proficiency bonus?

I would agree you have "all your eggs in one basket" thing going on, that helps and hurts and makes your damage a lot more "swingy". That has not bothered me that much in Cantrip builds (Green Flame Blade and Truestrike), what is a bigger problem is AOOs of you do not have Warcaster. Pact of Blade solves that (and gives you lots of damage options on Truestrike), but it is a relatively high price to pay for it.



Warlocks have quite a few too though, mostly through Invocations (One With Shadows, Devil's Sight/Darkness, Lessons of the First Ones(Lucky), Pact of Tome(Find Familiar), Pact of Chain .....

I agree it is not the same benefit, and there are tradeoffs, but Warlocks can easily get advantage regularly. This is aside from the obvious 1-level Sorcerer dip for innate Sorcery that will give you advantage on all Cantrips that are on the Sorcerer list for two fights a day. Heck the Sorcerer dip is common on Rogues in 2024 to have even easier advantage (and higher damage) with their one attack.



This is true if you have Find Familiar from Pact of Tome, but not from Pact of Chain. Quasit and Imp are not very fragile in 2024. They are not heemen, but they have decent hit points and are invisibile. Moreover, they can be summoned at will with an action, so you always have one at the start of a fight regardless of if they got killed in the last fight 5 minutes ago.



I agree with this completely. He did say he plays a controller for levels 1-6, not a smiter but that makes little sense to me. If I am doing this I take Paladin first all the time in this build for the armor proficiency.



I don't think he has room for it, but Warlock survivability comes from Invocations - Fiendish Vigor and Lessons of the first ones (Tough), and at low levels Pact of Chain and letting your Familiar do the fighting for you. An imp will mop the floor with any 1st level PC and can keep up until around 4th level because of the way the action economy works allowing them to attack with a reaction and advantage and letting them immediately turn invisible again with their action.



Shilleleagh gives you more damage if you are using a shield and it gives you a better AOO if you aren't (at the cost of some damage).

TBH though, I think if you are using a shield a Morning Star, Pick or Longsword are best for Sap. I think this is better on this build than either Vex or Topple or anything else. Sap would be my pick if you are not using a shield too, but that costs damage so I think a Greatsword with Graze is probably the best option and a Cleave Greataxe is second best.

Im not a fan of blade pact warlocks. I want to hit lvl 6 ASAP.

You've got the option of Paladin lvl 1 or 2. It takes care of a lot of issues i have with the bladelock (lack of medium armor, shields, weapon masteries).

When I put it togather I just recycled the existing build. I like tough, magic initiate feats, lucky and the one that grants inspiration.

My first thought was lesn into support low level (grant inspiration cast bless, heal) transition to control and then sniting.
You can start earlier with paladin splash of course. Its just what I thought. A low lvl paladin wont be great at smoking either.

A support warlock with good damage though thats very useful tier 1.

 

[Worrgrendel]

Im not a fan of blade pact warlocks. I want to hit lvl 6 ASAP.

You've got the option of Paladin lvl 1 or 2. It takes care of a lot of issues i have with the bladelock (lack of medium armor, shields, weapon masteries).

When I put it togather I just recycled the existing build. I like tough, magic initiate feats, lucky and the one that grants inspiration.

My first thought was lesn into support low level (grant inspiration cast bless, heal) transition to control and then sniting.
You can start earlier with paladin splash of course. Its just what I thought. A low lvl paladin wont be great at smoking either.

A support warlock with good damage though thats very useful tier 1.

You say you aren’t a fan of Blade Pact Warlocks but it’s required to get Eldritch Smite. Also, adding all the extra damage from Spellfire Adept sounds great but you don’t have a lot of Hit Dice at low levels and burning through them for damage on days with multiple encounters is going to leave you vulnerable and your party frustrated spending limited resources to top you off between fights because you have no Hit Dice to spend during Short Rests.

 

[Zardnaar]

You say you aren’t a fan of Blade Pact Warlocks but it’s required to get Eldritch Smite. Also, adding all the extra damage from Spellfire Adept sounds great but you don’t have a lot of Hit Dice at low levels and burning through them for damage on days with multiple encounters is going to leave you vulnerable and your party frustrated spending limited resources to top you off between fights because you have no Hit Dice to spend during Short Rests.

You have the option of burning through your HD.

I'm not fond of the pure warlock bladelock. Multiclass fixes the issues (armor, shields and weapon masteries).

 

[Worrgrendel]

You have the option of burning through your HD.

I'm not fond of the pure warlock bladelock. Multiclass fixes the issues (armor, shields and weapon masteries).

Fair enough. But when do you make the decision to use them? Save them on the first encounter for later and then find out you never had another encounter? Now your feat did nothing for that day. Go the opposite and blow them too early and run into the problem I stated above. Finding the middle ground could be what is difficult because you don’t know what encounters you have each day.

 

[Zardnaar]

Fair enough. But when do you make the decision to use them? Save them on the first encounter for later and then find out you never had another encounter? Now your feat did nothing for that day. Go the opposite and blow them too early and run into the problem I stated above. Finding the middle ground could be what is difficult because you don’t know what encounters you have each day.

That's a table issue. Might be complete crap at the wrong table. Eg long drawn out days 0 short rests.

You woukd have to figure out the rate you can do it. Im leaning towards 1 warlock smite and 1 paladin smite per conversation and 4 HD used.

Depends on short rests, party composition etc.
Personally I would do 1-6 warlock first. If the table is wrong double down on the controller bit and dont do the build.

How does the level 6 warlock ability work with recurring damage eg wall of fire? Asking for a friend. Can't spellfire adept boist recurring damage lije WoF ir Spirit guardians?

 

[Worrgrendel]

That's a table issue. Might be complete crap at the wrong table. Eg long drawn out days 0 short rests.

You woukd have to figure out the rate you can do it. Im leaning towards 1 warlock smite and 1 paladin smite per conversation and 4 HD used.

Depends on short rests, party composition etc.
Personally I would do 1-6 warlock first. If the table is wrong double down on the controller bit and dont do the build.

How does the level 6 warlock ability work with recurring damage eg wall of fire? Asking for a friend. Can't spellfire adept boist recurring damage lije WoF ir Spirit guardians?

Not seeing how this is a table issue. Nobody has any idea how many encounters they are going to have each adventuring day. If your DM is either telling you or always does 2.5 encounters per day that is a DM problem. Not a table problem. Also, when do you cut your losses on the build? You’ve already invested the Invocations/Feats by level 4+. You can just magically respec your character mid campaign and your table would be okay with that (especially after blaming the “table issues” on them for your build not working?). This isn’t BG3 and you just go to camp and talk to Withers and “boom” I’m a controller Warlock now!

 

[Zardnaar]

Not seeing how this is a table issue. Nobody has any idea how many encounters they are going to have each adventuring day. If your DM is either telling you or always does 2.5 encounters per day that is a DM problem. Not a table problem. Also, when do you cut your losses on the build? You’ve already invested the Invocations/Feats by level 4+. You can just magically respec your character mid campaign and your table would be okay with that (especially after blaming the “table issues” on them for your build not working?). This isn’t BG3 and you just go to camp and talk to Withers and “boom” I’m a controller Warlock now!

You can swap your invocations out. So yes you can build for that.

You gave 3 levels to figure it out, Spellfire Adept is locked in.

You could still sit back and use it on guiding bolt, wall of fire, true strike etc. Ideal no but its not a giant kick in the love spuds.

How does the feat work with wall of fire and lvl 6 celestial ability. Adding cha to damage and 2-2d8 damage ad repelling blasting people through the wall doesn't seem awful.

You can also aquire Spellfire Flare easy enough and use it with hex.

 

[Worrgrendel]

You can swap your invocations out. So yes you can build for that.

You gave 3 levels to figure it out, Spellfire Adept is locked in.

You could still sit back and use it on guiding bolt, wall of fire, true strike etc. Ideal no but its not a giant kick in the love spuds.

How does the feat work with wall of fire and lvl 6 celestial ability. Adding cha to damage and 2-2d8 damage ad repelling blasting people through the wall doesn't seem awful.

You can also aquire Spellfire Flare easy enough and use it with hex.

You can swap one Invocation out at level up, so, yes you can swap them out eventually but it might take 2-3 levels to swap over. How is Hex adding value to Spellfire Flare?

 

[Zardnaar]

You can swap one Invocation out at level up, so, yes you can swap them out eventually but it might take 2-3 levels to swap over. How is Hex adding value to Spellfire Flare?

Spellfire Flare is per ray. Warlocks ideally want to upcast spells.

A 4th level spellfire Flare is 5 rays at 2d10 radiant and hex would apply to every one of them. Charisma to damage on one beam and you can use spell fire adept.

Im not to sure how spellfire adept works with wall of fire though and radiant soul.
. At level 5 you get two invocations and can swap out another.

That's 3 invocations if its clear the way DM is running adventures wont support my build.

Personally with a short rest based class I'm short resting every 1.5-2 combats. Unless theres an in game reason not to eg a time limit.

5.0 i played a fire celestial Warlock with healer feat. Sure I can heal you..... lessons of the first ones musician for example.

 

[Worrgrendel]

Spellfire Flare is per ray. Warlocks ideally want to upcast spells.

A 4th level spellfire Flare is 5 rays at 2d10 radiant and hex would apply to every one of them. Charisma to damage on one beam and you can use spell fire adept.

Im not to sure how spellfire adept works with wall of fire though and radiant soul.
. At level 5 you get two invocations and can swap out another.

That's 3 invocations if its clear the way DM is running adventures wont support my build.

Personally with a short rest based class I'm short resting every 1.5-2 combats. Unless theres an in game reason not to eg a time limit.

5.0 i played a fire celestial Warlock with healer feat. Sure I can heal you..... lessons of the first ones musician for example.

Right. And if you’re using one of your 2 level 4 spell slots on Spellfire Flare are you really using the other on Hex (that does not upcast)? And no, you can’t have Hex through Fae Touched and use the one free casting because you’re only feat was on Spellfire Adept.