Spelljammer Spell Jammer speed

jasper

Rotten DM
To make it simple. In space during ship to ship combat, you can warp speed when you 1,001 ft away from a ship. For planets taking off you just 1 mile from the surface you left. For landing. Well how much are you going bribe your DM?
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
To make it simple. In space during ship to ship combat, you can warp speed when you 1,001 ft away from a ship. For planets taking off you just 1 mile from the surface you left. For landing. Well how much are you going bribe your DM?
For my games I'm going to want it to be higher than 1 mile. I want them to be in space as well. I'll probably just pick an arbitrary 50 miles, since I think most planets are smaller than Earth and on Earth you get to space 62 miles up. For objects in space I'm going to keep it 1 mile. That enables space chases as well as encounters with things in space while you are trying to get distance from a ship or asteroid.
 

To make it simple. In space during ship to ship combat, you can warp speed when you 1,001 ft away from a ship. For planets taking off you just 1 mile from the surface you left. For landing. Well how much are you going bribe your DM?
Why not just keep the 1 mile for Ships and other space objects. You automatically start up to 1000 feet away.
 

Stormonu

Legend
Just to note - I did some calculations and spelljamming ships are travelling at approximately 6,944 miles per round (6 seconds). Spotting/detecting anything at spelljamming speeds takes some unbelievable sensory abilities. Pirate vessels trying to lay a trap/intercept a spelljamming ship would have an exceptionally hard time, I would think.
 

Just to note - I did some calculations and spelljamming ships are travelling at approximately 6,944 miles per round (6 seconds). Spotting/detecting anything at spelljamming speeds takes some unbelievable sensory abilities. Pirate vessels trying to lay a trap/intercept a spelljamming ship would have an exceptionally hard time, I would think.
100,000,000 miles per 24hrs
4,166,66.67 miles per hour
69,444.444 miles per minute
6,944.44 miles per round
1,157.41 miles per second


3.37x the speed of sound
.0004% the speed of light (not 4% 4/10,000 of 1%)

so somewhere around mach 3... very fast on earth but so slow that you would never get to another solar system
 

MarkB

Legend
100,000,000 miles per 24hrs
4,166,66.67 miles per hour
69,444.444 miles per minute
6,944.44 miles per round
1,157.41 miles per second


3.37x the speed of sound
.0004% the speed of light (not 4% 4/10,000 of 1%)

so somewhere around mach 3... very fast on earth but so slow that you would never get to another solar system
4.1 million miles per hour is not Mach 3. Mach 1 is 767 mph.

It's about 0.006 the speed of light.
 





see

Pedantic Grognard
Officially, the depth of the air envelope around a planet is the same as the diameter of the planet. See "Air Envelopes of Objects" on p.18 of the Astral Adventurer's Guide.

If you ignore the canonical 5e air envelope for transition to/from 100 million miles/day speeds, you choose the 2e Spelljammer implicit design that that you can use spelljammers to get from any point on the surface of a planet to another super-rapidly compared to any other travel method.

For 2e, it always took 4 turns, or 40 minutes, to launch/land from an Earth-sized planet to reach where you could move at wildspace speeds, so New York to Tokyo (or Melbourne, or Pretoria, or anywhere else) travel in 80 minutes and a few seconds, if you could time your movement at 1,157.41 miles per second well enough.

If you use 1 mile from the surface as the transition point to wildspace speeds, and 5e ship flight speeds, that comes to a few seconds over 40 minutes for a 3 mph ship, 15 minutes NYC-to-Tokyo for a 8 mph ship like a Damselfly. So you're talking either faster than any modern travel method.

If you use 50-miles-from surface as the transtion and 5e ship flight speeds, it's under 34 hours for a 3 mph ship, under 13 hours for an 8 mph. Which is competitive with a modern NYC-to-Tokyo flight.

If you count the official 5e air envelope as part of the object for the 1 mile/1000-250 ft. distances, then it's faster to normally fly the great circle route from Tokyo to NYC (6,745 miles) at 3-to-8-mph than to fly the diameter of the Earth (7,917.5 miles) up at 3-to-8 mph, move at wildspace speeds, and fly the diameter of the Earth back down at 3-to-8 mph.

So the obvious choices are:

1) Use the 5e envelope as part of an object. Space travelers will mostly only visit small bodies (asteroids, small moons, and the like), because the time in atmosphere on large bodies is so long. Spelljammers will still be useful for same-planet travel (flight is an advantage), but will not utterly change travel/shipping times.

2) Do not use the 5e envelope as part of an object, and use 5e helm prices/availability. Spelljammers should rapidly replace all other methods of long distance shipping, because they move quantities of cargo comparable to conventional cargo ships, at capital costs similar to conventional cargo ships, at speeds faster than (or, with a 50-mile limit, merely comparable to) modern aircraft.

3) Do not use the 5e envelope as part of an object, and make helms legendary rarity (both in price and difficulty to make). Spelljamming helms are the exclusive province of powerful governments, high-level adventurers, and the like, since they are so rare and so powerful.

You'll notice all of those options have their disadvantages for official publication. The first one rules out Star Trek-style planet-of-the-week Spelljammer games. The second one blows up any existing game world it touches (the Realms, Eberron, etc.). The third one rules out Firefly-style random-nobodies-odd-jobs Spelljammer games.

My personal fourth option, which I developed when cogitating on these things a few years ago, is as follows:

Gravity Line Travel

A spelljammer that’s beyond the atmosphere (50 miles above the surface for Earth-like bodies) may exploit a gravity line to travel directly toward a celestial body (any object at least half a mile in diameter) in line-of-sight. While doing so, the spelljammer travels at a speed of about 4 million miles per hour (100 million miles/day). It automatically drops out of this speed when within a tenth of a mile of a celestial body (including its atmosphere) or another spelljammer.

One notable quirk of gravity line travel is that, when a helm returns to a celestial body, it arrives at the place it last departed that body, no matter how much time has passed or how many other bodies it may have visited since. Thus, if a spelljammer departs Toril by gravity line from a spot 50 miles above Waterdeep, next time it arrives at Toril by gravity line travel, it will arrive at that same spot above Waterdeep. The only exception is if the body has at least one active beacon arcane; in that case, the helmsman can choose to arrive at the nearest point above any active beacon.

(You can then make a beacon arcane legendary-rarity magic items that are expensive to operate, so putting several on the same planet is incredibly rare.)
 
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Yaarel

Mind Mage
So I want to run a spell jammer game. I had to ask, "How fast can these things go?"
and I have some issues with the answer.

The slowest is 25ft per round the fastest is 70ft per round... this seams slow, BUT then you get a 'hyper jump' as long as you are not "close to something with gravity and air pocket"

WAIT... what is close? I mean is a vehicle going 70ft per round being chased by one that goes 25ft per round going to force that 70ft one not be able to 'jump to hyper speed'? and if so for how long? every round the faster gains 40ft so over a minute that will give (assuming same starting point) a 400ft distance... over an hour that is 24,000ft. is being within 24,000ft count as 'close'?

over a day of running (assuming they had same starting point) that 70ft spell jammer will have 576,000ft distance.

to put this in perspective to get from earth to the moon is about 1 1/4 BILLION feet.


so lets say that you have to be a billion feet (most of the distance from earth to moon) in order to make that jump, lets see how long it would take to get a billion ft from each other... 1,736 days!!

okay, so lets also remember that if that 70ft spell jammer takes off and go to separate from the planet to get to that speed... lets see what happens, how far can 70ft move get you in a day? 70ft per 6 seconds means 700ft per minute that means 42,000ft per hour or 1,008,000ft per day... 5280ft in a mile so about 190 miles... lets call that 200 miles. 238,900 miles to the moon so that is about 1,194.5 days to get to the moon.

but we have air issues... you have 120 days of good air, and 120 days of foul air before you get to deadly air. So I assume the game is SUPPOSED to assume that most trips will be 120 days or less.

so at 70ft how far can you make it in 120days? 24,000 miles.... so you HAVE to be able to go faster inside the earth to the moon because at 24,000 miles it take 12 days (remember I rounded up to 200 for fastest spell jammer) so at least if that is 'close' you end up with 24 days just to get to and that far past moon. now if we say the moon and planet are in such a way that you can head 'Away from moon' and that cuts the distance in 1/2 that would be 12 days (on the fastestest ship)


now I know it says 'DMs call' but my players and I are going to have to figure this out. So how are YOU handling speed?
In the astral sea, the ships are the same speed, but the distances between stars are much shorter.

One travels at the speed of thought.
 

Stormonu

Legend
One thing that bothers me in the 5E version is the tactical speed of the ships. They’re set at sea-going speeds, which I really dislike. For my own games, I believe I will be at least doubling the speeds of various ships at tactical speed - maybe even more. I’d like to get them into the 30-50 mph speed range, certainly not the 3-5 mph range.
 

Stormonu

Legend
By the way, just found and went through the Tactical Speed rules in the old 2E version. Ships in that version moved based on the level of the Jamming pilot and speed was about 17 mph per hex (1 hex = 500 yards/1,500 feet, 1 round = 1 minute), giving ships a speed around 3-5 hexes per round between levels 5-10. That’s about 51-90 mph - a bit fast for my liking, but that’s the “official” old speeds.
 

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