Spell Penetration is kinda bla

[Nail]

Let's put this "penetrate SR" business in its proper light:

Of the core monsters (those in the MM 3.5e) of CR 10 and above, 62.5% have spell resistance. (30 out of 48)

...and from experience, the monsters in other supplements (like MM III!!) have a higher percentage of SR creatures above CR 10.

Think about that: at least 2/3 (if not 3/4) of the enemies you will fight will have spell resistance!!! Why would a spell-caster not be concerned? Hello?

 

[Jdvn1]

Actually, what you really need is Complete Arcane.

Check out the Assay Resistance (p.98) spell. And check out the casting time: "swift action".

Demons beware!

Actually, what you really need is the Draconomicon.

Check out the Lower Spell Resistance (p.114) spell. And check out the duration. Plus it helps all of the casters in the party, not just you.

 

[Timeboxer]

Vraister, I highly recommend taking Arcane Mastery over Spell Penetration, or, even better, in addition to. Taking 10 on Spell Resistance caster level checks is not too shabby.

Actually, what you really need is the Draconomicon.

Check out the Lower Spell Resistance (p.114) spell. And check out the duration. Plus it helps all of the casters in the party, not just you.

Actually, what you really need is the Planar Handbook.

Check out the Spell Vulnerability (p.104) spell. It's just like the Lower Spell Resistance spell, but it's a level lower for Sorcerer/Wizard.

 

[Thanee]

Actually, what you really need is the Draconomicon.

Check out the Lower Spell Resistance (p.114) spell.

I think not. Lower Spell Resistance is a below average spell at best (Spell Vulnerability from Planar Handbook is better (3rd level), but still too weak). Assay Resistance is a godsend in comparison (and I agree with Nail, that it totally beats Spell Penetration, too).

And check out the duration.

You think 1 minute/level does any practical difference to 1 round/level?

It's a spell used in combat, 1 round/level is all you need.

Plus it helps all of the casters in the party, not just you.

Yep, that's the whole benefit of that spell... now check the huge disadvantage after "Casting Time:" (and that is not even in comparison with Assay Resistance, where it completely loses out, anyways) and you should know why it is rather bad.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Vraister, I highly recommend taking Arcane Mastery over Spell Penetration, or, even better, in addition to. Taking 10 on Spell Resistance caster level checks is not too shabby.

Only if the DM is lenient enough to let you use it in combat, because the feat alone does not allow it.

Anyways, with Arcane Mastery you very much need something to up your caster level or Spell Penetration, since 10+level could be too low oftentimes when fighting dangerous opponents.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jdvn1]

I think not. Lower Spell Resistance is a below average spell at best (Spell Vulnerability from Planar Handbook is better (3rd level), but still too weak). Assay Resistance is a godsend in comparison (and I agree with Nail, that it totally beats Spell Penetration, too).

Yep, that's the whole benefit of that spell... now check the huge disadvantage after "Casting Time:" (and that is not even in comparison with Assay Resistance, where it completely loses out, anyways) and you should know why it is rather bad.

Your games must be way more powerful than mine if 1 round and -15 to SR is weak. That always lets me beat SR every time. Especially with Round 1: Lower Spell Resistance, Round 2: Harm.

 

[Nail]

Analysis:

Spell Vulnerability: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 3 (Planar Handbook, p 104)
This spell allows a Fortitude save....although there is a penalty equal to your caster level. (Given a typical values, that translates into 20% chance of success for most monsters of the appropriate CR.) If the subject fails the save (no SR allowed), then his SR is reduced by 1 per caster level. Casting time: One round!!! Range: Close

Lower Spell Resistance: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 4 (Draconomicon, p.114)
This spell allows a Fort save, in the same manner as Spell Vulnerability. In fact......it's the very same spell! (lower Sor/Wiz level though.....hmmmmm......) Casting time: 1 round!!! Range: Close.

Assay Resistance: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 4 (Complete Arcane, p.98)
This spell does not allow a save or SR. Casting it is a swift action. You automatically know the creatures magical defences (including its SR value). And you (but only you) gain a +10 to defeat SR checks for 1 rd/level. <EDIT>: Did I mention it's range is "Within Sight"?

As a cleric, I know which one I'd pick! Hello Assay Resistance! Keep in mind the vulnerabilities caused by the casting time, as well as the possibility of a successful save.

 

[Nail]

Your games must be way more powerful than mine if 1 round and -15 to SR is weak. That always lets me beat SR every time. Especially with Round 1: Lower Spell Resistance, Round 2: Harm.

Your DM is being easy on you. A one round casting time is killer, especially in high level combats. What level are your PCs?

Creatures with SR are generally creatures with high Int and high move. If they see the wizard setting up for a long casting time spell....

"It's time fer me t' fry up some mage-jerky!"

This is especially true if you are close enough to try that Harm monkey-business you mentioned. You know the range on that spell is "Touch", right?

 

[Thanee]

Your games must be way more powerful than mine if 1 round and -15 to SR is weak.

Did I say weak? No I think I said below average.

OTOH Assay Resistance is probably too good for its level, I'd rather put it at 4th or 5th.

That always lets me beat SR every time. Especially with Round 1: Lower Spell Resistance, Round 2: Harm.

You mean... Round 1: Lower Spell Resistance, get attacked, fail Concentration check, repeat.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

You automatically know the creatures magical defences (including its SR value).

I read this as flavor text and a description of what grants you the +10 against SR (but no other benefit).

Hmm...

Bye
Thanee