Spell Penetration is kinda bla

[Thanee]

Yow! I've rarely if ever taken that sort of damage from one attack or spell. I'd have to be constantly Curing if that sort of stuff happened all the time. Wait... well, I'd have to be constantly Curing _myself_.

Not that this happens all the time... But it is very well possible.

Plus, you could always Rapid Spell (CDv; but use with Spell Vulnerability to use a lower slot) to make it a standard action if you were really worried about it.

Or just use Assay Resistance and not waste the feat.

Honestly, though, if the bad guys are going to go after the casters before the fighters, they generally go after the Sorcerer before the Cleric. Easier to kill and a bigger damage output. At least, in my games.

Yep, but if one is casting a full round spell, which makes the bad guy vulnerable to that big damage output (assuming an intelligent opponent who does understand what's going on), then you can bet who will be prime target for that round.

Bye
Thanee

 

[TheYeti1775]

I have Spell Pen. and Greater Spell Pen.
as a 6th Level Wizard I love it

 

[Jdvn1]

Or just use Assay Resistance and not waste the feat.

Yep, but if one is casting a full round spell, which makes the bad guy vulnerable to that big damage output (assuming an intelligent opponent who does understand what's going on), then you can bet who will be prime target for that round.

Oh, Rapid Spell has other uses too. Faster summoned monsters, faster Restorations. Lower Spell Resistance is slightly more powerful than Assay Resistance, I think, too. And it's _really_ fun to say, "Please make a Fortitude save at a -15 penalty."

And most of the stuff I fight doesn't have Spellcraft, so wouldn't know what I'm casting. They wouldn't know I'd be making them vulnerable until it's too late. The things with really high SRs, in the game I play in, tend to be fighter-types with a bunch of hit points. If they knew what I was casting, they couldn't do anything about it since there are fighters between them and me.

That's why I don't need Rapid Spell, myself. They can't get out of melee without provoking AoO's, which makes them a sitting duck for my full-round spell. And if the BBEG has minions, I'd just kill them first since they probably don't have SR or have a much lower SR. It's all about timing.

 

[Trainz]

The best feats for any given character are often the ones he will use the most often.

For a sorceror for example these could be Improved Init, Spell Penetration (starting at around 12th level), Greater Spell Penetration, Empower (especially in conjunction with the following spells: ray of enfeeblement, scorching ray, fireball, the various orb spells from CA...), Draconic Heritage followed by Draconic Flight (CA).

These last two draconic feats absolutely rock BTW. I slapped them on my sorceror, and since then, I have yet to suffer a single point of damage.

 

[Trainz]

Oh, Rapid Spell has other uses too. Faster summoned monsters, faster Restorations. Lower Spell Resistance is slightly more powerful than Assay Resistance, I think, too.

The most precious comodity in D&D is actions, and Assay Resistance is a swift action. Nothing beats that. No save, no spell res.

I guess I'm just a control freak.

 

[FireLance]

And, yeah, isn't stuff like Divine Reach nice? And aren't big things with low Dex's nice? Very nice. Most Dragons have about a 10 touch AC.

Got Frostburn? Have a look at shivering touch (Clr 3). It's the ultimate low-Dex creature killer. Maximize it for 18 points of Dexterity damage, no save!

Now we know how all those Vassals of Bahamut managed to qualify...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Now we know how all those Vassals of Bahamut managed to qualify...

Heh.

This thread strikes me as illustrating another example of power creep in D&D. If you're playing a core game, Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration are great feats for the 10+ game. Only when you start adding all sorts of supplements do you find (naturally) more powerful solutions.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

That's why we play only Core + Campaign Setting Core Stuff.

~Marimmar

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Spell penetration is a very powerful feat. In my experience the higher the groups level the more valuable it is. At low levels it is pretty much worthless though.

 

[Plane Sailing]

And, yeah, isn't stuff like Divine Reach nice? And aren't big things with low Dex's nice? Very nice. Most Dragons have about a 10 touch AC.

Of course, harm has a will save now and dragons have pretty good will saves. And you aren't wiping out 500hp at a stroke but only 10hp/caster level.

harm + divine reach is nice, but not a killer.