D&D 3E/3.5 Spell/Rule Changes from 3.0 to 3.5 -- How did we survive 3.0?

[two]

Now that a lot of you have been playing the 3.5 rules for a few months at least...

Are there any spell changes, or other significant rules changes, that once you started using them, made you wonder how 3.0 "worked" at all?

(Because you found the 3.5 changes so necessary and nice that going back to 3.0 at this point "feels" impossible?)

For me, the biggest and best change had to be, in one word:

HASTE.

I can't imagine playing with 3.0 haste, honestly. At this point I would feel totally muchkin even casting it, should I be stuck in a 3.0 game. I just feel 3.5 haste makes for a far better combat experience.

Any other big ones that strike you?

 

[noeuphoria]

How about the cheese pizza with extra cheese, HARM. And actually I can't imagine playing 3.5 with the unerrataed gate or shapechange. 2xHD just allowed some insanity.

 

[smetzger]

bladebarrier

 

[DanMcS]

Evard's Black Tentacles went from hugely obnoxious, bring-game-to-a-grinding-halt spell in 3e, to a nifty, quickly resolved, useful area denial spell in 3.5. This was amply demonstrated in our group when the wizard, accidentally using my 3.0 PHB, cast Evard's one week and it took a good 5 minutes to get it set up, plus a minute or two for his turn every round.

The next week, against our better judgement, we used it again, looked in a 3.5 PHB to see how it worked, and were shocked, shocked I say, to see that it took a quick sketch on the map and 1 roll per person in the area to resolve. Net time 15 to 20 seconds. So much better now.

 

[mercucio]

Not really, almost all of the changes have been for the better (especially the errata on divine favor, but we'd house ruled that long ago =).

However, upon the advent of 3.5 we did decide to revert two spells back to their original 3.0 versions: eyebite and freezing sphere.

 

[dcollins]

Are there any spell changes, or other significant rules changes, that once you started using them, made you wonder how 3.0 "worked" at all?

For me, the biggest and best change had to be, in one word: HASTE.

Keep in mind how many changes 3.5 made to the spell lists. There have to be dozens, if not hundreds of them. Changed names, levels, schools, components, ranges, durations, etc., etc., etc., all over the place. Far more than in any change of editions from 1st to 3rd.

My opinion is that the majority of those changes are worthless and unnecessary -- especially in the context of a supposed "half edition" revision/streamlining. And heck, they still didn't properly fix what really needed it: polymorph.

There are 3 spell changes that really were justified:
HASTE. HEAL. HARM.

Now, most people that were playing 3rd Edition had already House-Ruled these to their taste, so it wasn't like a big revelation when the changes were revealed to us in 3.5.

Are those 3 changes worth dealing with the dozens of unnecessary ones? No.
Are those 3 changes worth $120 for new books? No.

My group still plays with 3.0 rules, with those specific 3 spells changed and that's it.

http://superdan.net.home.comcast.net/down3-5.html

 

[Liquidsabre]

Are those 3 changes worth dealing with the dozens of unnecessary ones? No.
Are those 3 changes worth $120 for new books? No.

Oh, oh. Dcollins has gone Diaglo on us! How many posts have you said that now Dc?


Myself I'm of the reverse opinion, here's a nice summary of the changes in 3.5 that really speaks for itself:

• 10 skill changes, many usless ones folded into others (Alchemy as a craft skill, scry gone, intuit direction folded into survival, etc.)
  
• new feats added, a few significant feat name and effect changes.
  
• 53 new spells
  
• 11 deleted spells
  
• 31 spells change of school
  
• 17 spell had a change in effect
  
• DMG reorganized, new material added, leadership feat redone, trap section mroe detailed, more PrCs, magic item prciing refined, intelligent items revamped, etc.
  
• Alot chanegs done in the MM, CRs changed, DR had a big change, wow.

For me the #1 change was to all of the spells! This virtually eliminated the domination of 3.0 arcane casters.

And Dcollins stop scarying those who may not know better!! Now-a-days the D&D core trilogy can be had for as low as $70 bucksc (that's includign tax and shipping!).

 

[coyote6]

I'm sort-of with dcollins; for me, the many trivial changes for no apparent good reason overwhelm the good stuff (haste, harm, slowing fly down, etc.).

 

[dcollins]

And Dcollins stop scarying those who may not know better!! Now-a-days the D&D core trilogy can be had for as low as $70 bucksc (that's includign tax and shipping!).

Aha, only $70 (and lots of confusion) for 3 worthwhile changes that everybody already used. That's a downright bargain.

 

[shilsen]

Aha, only $70 (and lots of confusion) for 3 worthwhile changes that everybody already used. That's a downright bargain.

Right. Except that some people might actually figure that some of the other changes which Liquidsabre has mentioned, and those which he hasn't (substantial rework on certain classes, for example), might actually be worthwhile too.