Spell system based off of Book of Nine Swords - now with first revision

[Sadrik]

One other point to write into your revision.

With domains a cleric will know 25 +18 domain spells + 5 cures or inflicts. That is 48 different spells. Quite a bit. A sorcerer knows 34 spells (not counting 0 level spells). Is this what you want and about how many you want?

Does the cleric know all of the 0 level spells?

 

[Musrum]

Yup, it's balanced against normal D&D. Maybe I misinterpreted the original playes goal, but switching spellcasting to a per encounter basis seems like it will unavoidably change game balance.

Actually it would simplify game balance. The monsters and PC's would be balanced against each other. How many times have you seen the BBEG Wizard go down in frustration having cast his higher level spells previously?

 

[airwalkrr]

I think this is very innovative. I look forward to seeing what becomes of it. I think it has a lot of potential.

However, I am afraid that this would change the game to an extent to make the rules on magic in most books practically useless. I'm not sure if there is a way to circumvent that.

 

[Khaalis]

I am also interested to see where this project goes. I don't envy you the work you face though. You have a LOT of converting to do. However, I do have one comment. Keep in mind that you do not have to convert every cleric spell! You will actually need to decide what is important and what is not important from the cleric spell list. Some spells will outright not work well in this system, others are mediocre abilities at best.

On another note, you might want to look at making the domains more related to Disciplines. For example, using the crusader as an example, the cleric chooses 3 Domains (similar to the 3 Disciplines a crusader gains access to). Add a Universal Domain for core spells like Divinations that all clerics have, and these 4 domains are now the domains from which you can learn prayers, auras, etc. Then set up each domain similar to the disciplines in ToB.

For the domain itself, you could make the "Domain Power" into the equivalent of stances, thus they would gain 4 stances known (and maybe at 20th grant them stance mastery?). Instead of 1 spell per spell level gained as bonus prayers known, you are gaining access to the prayers related to the domains you know instead. This would create diversity among the clerics, even of the same deity (assuming the deity offers more than 3 domains).

Example Domain (1st level):

PROTECTION DOMAIN
Domain Stance: Sanctuary
…..1st Level
Deathwatch: Prayer - Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are.
Endure Elements: - Prayer Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Entropic Shield: Aura - Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance.
Hide from Undead: Prayer - Undead can’t perceive one subject/initiator level.
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: Aura - +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Purify Food and Drink: Prayer - Purifies 1 cu. ft./initiator level of food or water.
Remove Fear: Blessing - Suppresses fear or gives +4 on saves against fear for one subject.
Resistance: Blessing - Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Shield of Faith: Aura - Grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.


SANCTUARY (Stance)
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
Any opponent attempting to strike or otherwise directly attack you, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save. If the save succeeds, the opponent can attack normally and is unaffected by the stance. If the save fails, the opponent can’t follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it can’t directly attack you for the duration of the encounter or until you switch stances. Those not attempting to attack you remain unaffected. This stance does not prevent you from being attacked or affected by area or effect spells. You cannot attack without breaking the stance but may use non-attack abilities or otherwise act.


Just a thought…

 

[SteveC]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I think this is some very interesting work. I will be looking to see how this project develops and I like what you have so far. After I really take a look at it, I'll have some comments.

--Steve

 

[Kmart Kommando]

I am also interested to see where this project goes. I don't envy you the work you face though. You have a LOT of converting to do. However, I do have one comment. Keep in mind that you do not have to convert every cleric spell! You will actually need to decide what is important and what is not important from the cleric spell list. Some spells will outright not work well in this system, others are mediocre abilities at best.

On another note, you might want to look at making the domains more related to Disciplines. For example, using the crusader as an example, the cleric chooses 3 Domains (similar to the 3 Disciplines a crusader gains access to). Add a Universal Domain for core spells like Divinations that all clerics have, and these 4 domains are now the domains from which you can learn prayers, auras, etc. Then set up each domain similar to the disciplines in ToB.

For the domain itself, you could make the "Domain Power" into the equivalent of stances, thus they would gain 4 stances known (and maybe at 20th grant them stance mastery?). Instead of 1 spell per spell level gained as bonus prayers known, you are gaining access to the prayers related to the domains you know instead. This would create diversity among the clerics, even of the same deity (assuming the deity offers more than 3 domains).

Example Domain (1st level):

PROTECTION DOMAIN
Domain Stance: Sanctuary
…..1st Level
Deathwatch: Prayer - Reveals how near death subjects within 30 ft. are.
Endure Elements: - Prayer Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Entropic Shield: Aura - Ranged attacks against you have 20% miss chance.
Hide from Undead: Prayer - Undead can’t perceive one subject/initiator level.
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: Aura - +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Purify Food and Drink: Prayer - Purifies 1 cu. ft./initiator level of food or water.
Remove Fear: Blessing - Suppresses fear or gives +4 on saves against fear for one subject.
Resistance: Blessing - Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Shield of Faith: Aura - Grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.


SANCTUARY (Stance)
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
Any opponent attempting to strike or otherwise directly attack you, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save. If the save succeeds, the opponent can attack normally and is unaffected by the stance. If the save fails, the opponent can’t follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it can’t directly attack you for the duration of the encounter or until you switch stances. Those not attempting to attack you remain unaffected. This stance does not prevent you from being attacked or affected by area or effect spells. You cannot attack without breaking the stance but may use non-attack abilities or otherwise act.


Just a thought…

I think Sanctuary would be a prayer, not a stance. "..please don't kill me, please don't kill me.." or "..no one to see here, please move along.."

 

[FireLance]

I think Sanctuary would be a prayer, not a stance. "..please don't kill me, please don't kill me.." or "..no one to see here, please move along.."

I posted a much longer comment on the same topic at Circvs Maximvs, and I made Sanctuary a counter: someone tries to attack you, you cast it as an immediate action, and he has to make a Will save or his attack is foiled.

 

[Blue Sky]

Ok, I've added the revision, let me know what you think.

One other point to write into your revision.

With domains a cleric will know 25 +18 domain spells + 5 cures or inflicts. That is 48 different spells. Quite a bit. A sorcerer knows 34 spells (not counting 0 level spells). Is this what you want and about how many you want?

Does the cleric know all of the 0 level spells?

I've reduced the spells known, but given the cleric a "Prayer Book" of basic spells. That way, he's not stuck into taking all heals, but he still doesn't know all the spells.

I think this is very innovative. I look forward to seeing what becomes of it. I think it has a lot of potential.

However, I am afraid that this would change the game to an extent to make the rules on magic in most books practically useless. I'm not sure if there is a way to circumvent that.

Thanks. I'm expecting that once I get the basic feel down, I'll just have to do a little cut and paste, change some names, and a quick revision for each class that comes up. No reason to do every class until we need it, you know?

On another note, you might want to look at making the domains more related to Disciplines. For example, using the crusader as an example, the cleric chooses 3 Domains (similar to the 3 Disciplines a crusader gains access to). Add a Universal Domain for core spells like Divinations that all clerics have, and these 4 domains are now the domains from which you can learn prayers, auras, etc. Then set up each domain similar to the disciplines in ToB.

I like your idea, but I'm looking at trying to keep this as simple as possible right now, and I think that it'd be a lot of work. I'm definately putting the idea on my to do list, though.

Thanks for the comments, guys. Keep them coming.

 

[nobodez]

I like the class (especially the lowered CL each time they re-up their spells), but there's still one big problem with the spell list that I'm seeing. 0-level spells. They just don't make sense for the system as re-designed. The only reason to have 0-level spells was to allow low level spellcasters the ability to cast more but less powerful spells, quantity vs. quality.

Oh, and on another note, you need to make sure nobody can get below CL 1, or it just doesn't make sense. You might also still want to adopt the Crusader mechanic for prepared spells (or not).

Also, you need to clarify if spells are "readied" or "prepared". You're using both terms, though at least not in the same paragraphs.

 

[Cheiromancer]

think that Crusader is a more logical opener. The cleric should not be able to choose which spells he has access to from the get go; his god decides that.

I don't own the Bo9S, but from what I've read the Crusader mechanic is just aggravating. Maybe it'd be appropriate for a chaotic neutral deity to randomly assign powers, but I'd hate to play a cleric in such a system. And I like playing clerics.

So maybe include the crusader mechanic as an option (in an already optional system) but I would recommend against building the system around it.

Just my two c.p.