spell targetting and augmented subtypes

[thorian]

Is the augmented subtype a valid consideration when targetting spells? For example, when a Humanoid (human) polymorphs into a giant, his type becomes Giant (augmented humanoid), at least I think. Now if one wishes to cast Charm Person, which only affects Humanoids, at the polymorphed human, would it work?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

For the record:

Augmented Subtype: A creature receives this subtype whenever something happens to change its original type. Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type.

Given that it specifies "traits of its current type," I would imagine that an augmented subtype is not a valid targeting indicator. Moreover:

The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.

If Polymorph gained you the augmented subtype, I believe it would specify that in the text of Polymorph. Given the text of the augmented subtype, it appears to apply only to cases in which a creature undergoes a permanent type change.

For instance, a once-human Dragon Disciple, at the end of his career, would become a Dragon [Augmented Humanoid].

However, I can certainly see where someone else might argue that someone under a polymorph effect would follow the "A creature receives this subtype whenever something happens to change its original type" text. In which case, all targeting is still done off of the current type, rather than the augmented subtype.

 

[Shin Okada]

Is the augmented subtype a valid consideration when targetting spells?

AFAIK, no. At least, I can't find any rule which allow it.

For example, when a Humanoid (human) polymorphs into a giant, his type becomes Giant (augmented humanoid), at least I think. Now if one wishes to cast Charm Person, which only affects Humanoids, at the polymorphed human, would it work?

Augmented subtypes are for creatures with certain template. Polymorph spell does not give you augmented subtype.

 

[Jdvn1]

Is the augmented subtype a valid consideration when targetting spells? For example, when a Humanoid (human) polymorphs into a giant, his type becomes Giant (augmented humanoid), at least I think. Now if one wishes to cast Charm Person, which only affects Humanoids, at the polymorphed human, would it work?

As noted already, Polymorph doesn't seem to change your type. When your type does change, though, the spell will affect you as the new type.

Like, a Wildshaped Druid is affect by spells that target animals.

 

[Mark Chance]

From polymorph: "The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form."

 

[Shin Okada]

From polymorph: "The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form."

That's right. So when a Humanoid (human) polymorphs into a giant, he becomes Giant, not Giant (augmented humanoid).

 

[thorian]

The following text from Rules of the Game, Polymorphing, part 3, suggest that the "polymorpher" does indeed gain the augmented subtype.

The subject temporarily gains the type and subtypes of the assumed form.

The subject also temporarily gains the augmented subtype for its original type. The subject loses any subtypes it has in favor of the assumed form's subtypes. For example, a human turned into a troll gains the giant type and the augmented humanoid subtype. The subject retains the features of its own type. It gains the traits of the assumed type -- except for any extraordinary qualities included in those traits. If you're having trouble deciding which type of traits you gain, here's a list of what you get and what you don't.

Here is the link to the article:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a

 

[Jdvn1]

All right, then yes, spells affect you as if you were the augmented type. Charm Person wouldn't work on a Human Polymorphed into a Giant.

 

[Shin Okada]

The following text from Rules of the Game, Polymorphing, part 3, suggest that the "polymorpher" does indeed gain the augmented subtype.


Here is the link to the article:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a

Another rule which is not written in core rule and only written in online article.

Well, it is always debatable if you consider "Rules of Game" as a written rule or not.

 

[thorian]

I didn’t mean for the thread to be derailed by a “polymorph granting augmented subtype” argument.

My original question still seems unclear to me. Perhaps simplifying my question will provide a better answer.

Is someone with the type “Dragon (augmented humanoid)” a valid target for an Enlarge Person spell or does the augmented subtype not enter into consideration for spell targeting?