D&D (2024) Spell Theif is not as bad aa it looks.

[mellored]

Spell Thief lets you negate a spell effect on yourself, and then get a copy of that spell if the caster fails a saving throw.

And a friendly caster can willingly fail a saving throw.

Thus, a friendly wizard casts fireball or other AoE and includes you.
You use your reaction, they willing fail the save, negate the damage on yourself, everyone else still takes damage, and you have an extra fireball.

Granted, the wizard is now unable to cast another fireball for 8 hours, but that's probably ok for at 17th level wizard.

You can even use it on stuff like Crusaders Mantle or Mass Healing Word. You'll negate the buff on yourself, the paladin and Fighter still get the extra damage/healing, and you can cast it later.

And there are "spell casting services". So you pay some money to get access to any spell.

What are some good spells to borrow from your friends?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Spell Thief lets you negate a spell effect on yourself, and then get a copy of that spell if the caster fails a saving throw.

And a friendly caster can willingly fail a saving throw.

Thus, a friendly wizard casts fireball or other AoE and includes you.
You use your reaction, they willing fail the save, negate the damage on yourself, everyone else still takes damage, and you have an extra fireball.

Granted, the wizard is now unable to cast another fireball for 8 hours, but that's probably ok for at 17th level wizard.

You can even use it on stuff like Crusaders Mantle or Mass Healing Word. You'll negate the buff on yourself, the paladin and Fighter still get the extra damage/healing, and you can cast it later.

And there are "spell casting services". So you pay some money to get access to any spell.

What are some good spells to borrow from your friends?

Nice catch.

Haste maybe? But they can access it themselves.

 

[mellored]

Nice catch.

Haste maybe? But they can access it themselves.

They can already prepare Haste as one of their spells. No need to borrow it.

But how about Plant Growth? You get to permanently ignore the speed penalty???

 

[ECMO3]

I just don't see it. The guy who casts it loses it for 8 hours and you get it ... but he has more spell slots at that level.

Also preparing a spell is not free and at high level most casters are preparation limited. Giving up one so the Rogue can use it does not seem like a good trade.

This is especially true when the Rogue probably has a crappy Intelligence. I play ATs a lot and if I play on point buy, most of them have an 8 Intelligence.

 

[MarkB]

I just don't see it. The guy who casts it loses it for 8 hours and you get it ... but he has more spell slots at that level.

Also preparing a spell is not free and at high level most casters are preparation limited. Giving up one so the Rogue can use it does not seem like a good trade.

This is especially true when the Rogue probably has a crappy Intelligence. I play ATs a lot and if I play on point buy, most of them have an 8 Intelligence.

Could be useful to let the rogue carry a spell into someplace the caster doesn't want to go, like if he's infiltrating somewhere. Does it work with Pass Without Trace?

 

[mellored]

I just don't see it. The guy who casts it loses it for 8 hours and you get it ... but he has more spell slots at that level.

1: rogue 20 gets a free crit. Any attack spell would be great (Blinding smite)
2: AT 6 gives the target disadvantage on the first save. Meaning your more accurate
3: Paladin just spent his last level 3 slot on Crusaders Mantle, so no real penalty for taking a copy.
4: your surrounded, and allies can drop a zone on you without worry of friendly fire
5: the spell doesn't affect you. No duration. Meaning you can walk though a web, plant growth, or other zone

Does it work with Pass Without Trace?

Yes.
Ranger can buff the party - the rogue.
And then rogue gets to cast it later.

 

[Ashrym]

And there are "spell casting services". So you pay some money to get access to any spell.

That was the first thing I thought of.

This is especially true when the Rogue probably has a crappy Intelligence. I play ATs a lot and if I play on point buy, most of them have an 8 Intelligence.

Except the ability to spell steal requires a saving throw so it incentivizes itself to invest in that INT score.

2: AT 6 gives the target disadvantage on the first save. Meaning your more accurate

Magical ambush is not just the first save.

Level 9: Magical Ambush​

If you have the Invisible condition when you cast a spell on a creature, it has Disadvantage on any saving throw it makes against the spell on the same turn.

Any way to maintain the invisible condition maintains the disadvantage on saves. Greater invisibility being the obvious method to give the arcane trickster the invisible condition. The hard part is getting a bonus action spell with a saving throw and another spell cast in the same turn. Splashing 2 levels of sorcerer or picking up the metamagic adept feat from TCoE enables this. Quicken a spell with a saving throw and then cast a cantrip with a saving throw or vice versa.

Seems like a lot of work but if the cantrip is mind sliver that sets up a further penalty on a spell. Some people might go for that combo. IE Arcane trickster has improved invisibility up, castes mind sliver on a target at disadvantage, mind sliver applies 1d4 save penalty on the next save, arcane trickster quickens one spell that also saves at disadvantage with a d4 penalty to the save as well to make sure the spell is likely to land.

Quicken and careful both look useful enough to slip in for some occasional metamagic on an arcane trickster.

 

[Horwath]

I just don't see it. The guy who casts it loses it for 8 hours and you get it ... but he has more spell slots at that level.

Also preparing a spell is not free and at high level most casters are preparation limited. Giving up one so the Rogue can use it does not seem like a good trade.

This is especially true when the Rogue probably has a crappy Intelligence. I play ATs a lot and if I play on point buy, most of them have an 8 Intelligence.

this.

but it might be good when sending a rogue on a solo mission if you are keen on splitting the party or a rogue has some kind of solo session so others time is not wasted.

but for party play it's not very good, maybe for keeping concentration on some spell that AT cannot get.

 

[mellored]

this.

but it might be good when sending a rogue on a solo mission if you are keen on splitting the party or a rogue has some kind of solo session so others time is not wasted.

but for party play it's not very good, maybe for keeping concentration on some spell that AT cannot get.

You missed some of the benefits.
*The spell still affect everyone else. This isn’t counterspell.
*you don't need to use this on the first spell of the day.

Wizard cast firewall with his last 4th level slot. He damages his enemies as normal. He won't cast it again for 8 hours as normal. There is no real penalty for him.

Rogue is now unaffected by that firewall, being able to walk back and forth though it for the rest of the battle. Plus he has an extra firewall to cast.


Oh. This also gets around the "no two spell slot" rule. Rogue can cast that firewall and something else. Can't think of any useful combo at the moment, but it's there.

 

[mellored]

To be clear, I'm not claiming this is overpowered or anything.

But giving your ally Careful metamagic and picking up an extra 4th level AoE spell is pretty good.

And it doesn't require Int investment.