Good game design does not depend on a DM having years of experience or creativity, nor upon the DM making wholesale changes to the game system, nor upon breaking story to "punish" what is otherwise good tactics. Good game design means addressing the problems, not suggestions fixes after the fact.
Spellcasting Sacred Cows
- Thread starter Tilenas
- Start date
It may seem counterintuitive, but take it from someone who hasn't seen the 15MWD in person despite playing since 1977,a upping the number of encounters is one of the ingredients in a campaign that help keep them from happening. The other main ingredient in warding off the 15MWD is the GM controlling where & when PCs can rest.
Here's how: the 15MWD happens when party casters run out of spells within just a few encounters. According to the people who see the 15 MWD, this typically happens because the casters "go nova" and have nothing in reserve after 3 or 4 encounters, typically regardless of the shape of the others in the party. And- crucially- the GM lets them rest.
If there are randomized encounters along the way that cause them to expend resources- especially encounters in poorly chosen rest sites or along paths of retreat- casters cannot afford to "go nova." They'll need to hold something in reserve for that eventuality.
Some people think that is "meta", but it really isn't. It's actually how most good military commanders use the forces at their command. Rarely, if ever, do they commit all of their available resources to an encounter.
That said, I have no idea if the learned behavior of the 15MWD can be unlearned.
1) if the encounter is appropriate to the story, no breaking is involved.
2) it is only good tactics in the context of the artificiality of a situation in which aggressors can attack, retreat and rest without reaction from their foes.
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Military commanders can't count on their resources respawning in full every day.
Exactly. Which is exactly why a semicompetent commander wouldn't let their enemy be able to do so either. Hence why they would deny them sleep if at all possible.
Respawning resources has zero to do with it.
A military commander will plan on having reserves at his disposal even on a single hit & run mission.*. And he will only use them if he has to. I guarantee you Seal Team 6 was either not the only option, or they had options that they did not use.
In a reality with daily resource respawning- such as for D&D PCs- a military commander will expect his foes to have resources that likewise will be available again within a day, and will plan accordingly. IOW, harrier tactics make as much sense, if not more, in the D&D universe as in the RW.
* the nature of those resources may vary: it could be other units who have briefed for the same mission; it may be special weapons designed to complete the task if conventional weapons cannot, etc.
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
Uhhhh gentlemen/folk? I am feeling like we maaaaay be veering slightly off topic here.
Spellcasting Sacred Cows :1) Magic always works. 2) 15 Minute Adventuring Day...a.k.a. "15MAD" (though for gods know what reason the OP described it as a "20-minute adventuring day"...weird...wonder what they're doing with those extra 5 minutes...wink. wink. nudge. nudge.)
Anywho...them's the topic, run with it.
--SD
Choose any 2 of: Go back to the earlier rulesets that had easier disruption of casting; require more to hit rolls, meaning fewer AoE spells for most casters; make Spellcraft the equivalent of a to hit roll- you have to succeed at it to cast the spell properly (may require some tweaking)
IMHO, that's a playstyle thing, not a sacred cow.
Solution to 15 minute adventuring day is incredibly simple. You make it difficult for the PCs to safely sleep anywhere they could possibly be in danger. So if they want to sleep all the time they're going to be wasting a lot of time (and likely be traveling a decent amount) which can and should make a difference in whatever they're trying to accomplish.
If time and distance mean nothing in your games then why wouldn't your players just do whatever is in their power to give themselves a better chance.
as for magic just 'happening' it does and it doesn't. there is spell resistance, there is rolling for damage, there are concentration checks, save rolls, etc.
so yeah you get to start casting without rolling anything but it can still 'miss' in a number of ways.
If time and distance mean nothing in your games then why wouldn't your players just do whatever is in their power to give themselves a better chance.
as for magic just 'happening' it does and it doesn't. there is spell resistance, there is rolling for damage, there are concentration checks, save rolls, etc.
so yeah you get to start casting without rolling anything but it can still 'miss' in a number of ways.
Tilenas
Explorer
Actually, that second point was originally about full spell recovery after each rest. Now, instead of going on a limb as a DM to create situations where the PCs simply can't rest because of the danger of assault (a situation which they will still defeat most of the time using the aforementioned rope trick or Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion etc.) or because the opposition has kept busy in the meantime (which may or may not make sense, considering your ancient, undead-filled crypt), I was suggesting to introduce a slower recovery of magical resources, so that retreat/rest/return would not award them such a huge benefit to start with.
