Storyteller01
First Post
We ave it set up so that only races that can speak unimpeded underwater can cast. So far, our black dragon tends to enjoy this advantage...
Spellcasting while underwater? No water breathing...
- Thread starter azhrei_fje
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azhrei_fje
First Post
Summary
Thanks for the feedback!
It sounds like the general consensus is that spellcasting underwater is doable, but most folks would impose a penalty: possibly the loss of the spell based on a random factor, or the loss of some time in regards to holding one's breath.
I think that without a freedom of movement or water breathing, it should be difficult to "speak in a strong voice" while underwater (unless one speaks Aquan or another language of water-based creatures, perhaps sahuagin?). To that end, a Concentration check for those without one of the preceding abilities makes sense -- those with more experience will have a better chance of succeeding. Maybe DC 20+spell level? That would be equivalent to the check made while grappling...
In the rules for holding one's breath, there is an allowance made for the type of action taken. Basically, one starts with 2xCON number of rounds to hold one's breath. Using only move actions consumes 1 round of breathing, while standard actions and full-round actions use up 2 rounds. So spellcasting already takes more than just moving. Should it use more than swinging a weapon? I think it should, but that seems like shafting the spellcasters unnecessarily, since they are likely to have lower Constitution scores. (IMC, anyway.)
Good info -- thanks all! Any final thoughts on this?
Thanks for the feedback!
It sounds like the general consensus is that spellcasting underwater is doable, but most folks would impose a penalty: possibly the loss of the spell based on a random factor, or the loss of some time in regards to holding one's breath.
I think that without a freedom of movement or water breathing, it should be difficult to "speak in a strong voice" while underwater (unless one speaks Aquan or another language of water-based creatures, perhaps sahuagin?). To that end, a Concentration check for those without one of the preceding abilities makes sense -- those with more experience will have a better chance of succeeding. Maybe DC 20+spell level? That would be equivalent to the check made while grappling...
In the rules for holding one's breath, there is an allowance made for the type of action taken. Basically, one starts with 2xCON number of rounds to hold one's breath. Using only move actions consumes 1 round of breathing, while standard actions and full-round actions use up 2 rounds. So spellcasting already takes more than just moving. Should it use more than swinging a weapon? I think it should, but that seems like shafting the spellcasters unnecessarily, since they are likely to have lower Constitution scores. (IMC, anyway.)
Good info -- thanks all! Any final thoughts on this?
Infiniti2000
First Post
Definitely not! That's just a flesh wound!Len said:
As for the pool, it's just something I thought about while swimming one day. And, yes, here in Florida any excuse to get into the water is a good one. Especially near the university, IYKWIMAITYD.
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
Sean Reynolds take on Underwater spell casting
And there was an entire page in one of Monte Cooks adventures, in pdf, that I can't seem to find right now. It was 3.0 but detailed fighting in/under/around water pretty good.
And there was an entire page in one of Monte Cooks adventures, in pdf, that I can't seem to find right now. It was 3.0 but detailed fighting in/under/around water pretty good.
Primitive Screwhead said:
That was copied into the 3.5 rules. Same as here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#underwaterCombat
Stalker0 said:
I ran an underwater campaign some time ago, and also allowed Aquan speakers to do fine underwater. I did however force both Concentration and Spellcraft checks when spellcasting underwater and holding your breath. If you had Water Breathing, you'd only require a Spellcraft check, effectively to pronounce the magical syllables correctly.
Pinotage
There are some things in the rules that can be made to apply, IMO.
For verbal component spells:
Now it is harder to hear (at least understanding wise) under water but not the exact same as being deafened so I would use roughly 1/2 the penalty - 10 % ASF chance.
For somatic components:
It is harder to make gestures, etc. Roughly the equivalent of weraing light armor.
So somewhere between 5 and 20% ASF. I would say closer to padded so 5% ASF. Saying it is like wearing light armor is important becasue there are classes that don't suffer an ASF for casting in light armors - so they should not suffer any additional penalty when underwater for spells with somatic components.
Now ASF penalties are cumulative so the ASF would be:
10% (verbal) = 5% (somatic) = 15%
This is just my making up equivalents though.
And of course you still need to account for penalties on holding your breath for taking actions.
For verbal component spells:
Now it is harder to hear (at least understanding wise) under water but not the exact same as being deafened so I would use roughly 1/2 the penalty - 10 % ASF chance.
For somatic components:
It is harder to make gestures, etc. Roughly the equivalent of weraing light armor.
So somewhere between 5 and 20% ASF. I would say closer to padded so 5% ASF. Saying it is like wearing light armor is important becasue there are classes that don't suffer an ASF for casting in light armors - so they should not suffer any additional penalty when underwater for spells with somatic components.
Now ASF penalties are cumulative so the ASF would be:
10% (verbal) = 5% (somatic) = 15%
This is just my making up equivalents though.
And of course you still need to account for penalties on holding your breath for taking actions.
Infiniti2000
First Post
Not quite the same, but close enough for government work. The web enhancement is from Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. I've taken both and made it closer to 3.5 and IMO more complete. Feel free to check it out. I guess I need to add in a section on spellcasting and on varying levels of water (wading at knee-high, waist-high, or whatever).Delta said:
azhrei_fje
First Post
Changes to I2K's chart?
Perhaps another couple of columns (and one or two rows) in the chart of underwater actions? I'm thinking two columns that detail Spells With V or S Components and Spells Without V or S Components and rows that cover Ability to Speak an Underwater Language and Water Breathing (if it's decided that either of those should have an impact on spellcasting).
And if the spellcaster needs to obtain a material component from a bag of holding or other extradimensional space, does that space fill with water when it is opened? (I'm thinking of a fully submerged spellcaster.)
In terms of additions needed: I agree! That doesn't mean I don't like the page, however!Infiniti2000 said:
Perhaps another couple of columns (and one or two rows) in the chart of underwater actions? I'm thinking two columns that detail Spells With V or S Components and Spells Without V or S Components and rows that cover Ability to Speak an Underwater Language and Water Breathing (if it's decided that either of those should have an impact on spellcasting).
And if the spellcaster needs to obtain a material component from a bag of holding or other extradimensional space, does that space fill with water when it is opened? (I'm thinking of a fully submerged spellcaster.)
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