Spellguard Ring interpretation

[javcs]

For summons, I am uncertain.
For a called creature, no.

For the Orbs, he's immune (probably), as you'd have to target him.

To clarify the difference between called creatures, wall of iron, and orb spells, the former two are instantaneous conjurations that neither target him, nor do they have an area that includes him, whereas the latter, although instantaneous conjurations, must be targeted on him.

I'll try and generalize my intent:
In general, if a spell is either targeted upon or has an area that includes him in such a way that the spell directly affects him, ie fireball, evard's black tentacles, he is unaffected, however, a spell that has an effect that affects something else, causing that something else to affect him in some way, he is affected as normal, ie Transmute Rock to Mud (as TRtM affects the rock, turning it to mud, which then affects him).

Still not that clear, but better (I hope).

 

[Hypersmurf]

For the Orbs, he's immune (probably), as you'd have to target him.

An Orb has no Target, it has an Effect. It's an instantaneous conjuration that neither targets him nor has an area that includes him.

Orb of Fire and Wall of Iron are the same; you create something, then you drop it on them.

-Hyp.

 

[javcs]

Not quite what I meant.

By target, I was also stretching the definition to include, selecting somebody to aim it at, directly attacking them. Which, strictly speaking is incorrect.

An Wall of Iron must come into existence on a flat level surface and then either falls over randomly or is pushed over by somebody or something else. The caster himself cannot directly affect a creature with a wall of iron, he can conjure it, then use another spell to knock it over.

Wall of Iron you cast and then get your tanks or summons to knock over. Orb of Fire you cast and then make a ranged touch attack roll, throwing it at somebody.

Addendum - If a spell requires an attack roll in order to affect him, he's also immune..

 

[Hypersmurf]

Addendum - If a spell requires an attack roll in order to affect him, he's also immune..

Like Planar Ally, or using Fabricate to create a sword?

I'm not understanding the difference between using a spell to create an orb of fire, which you then throw at somebody, and using a spell to create a spear, which you then throw at somebody.

Neither spell is cast on the subject. The Effects of both spells require an attack roll to affect the subject.

If I cast Telekinesis, and use Violent Thrust to hurl a barrel at him, I need to make an attack roll to hit him. Is he therefore immune?

-Hyp.

 

[javcs]

If the attack roll is made as part of casting it. Or if the attack roll is made by the caster during the duration of the spell.

EDIT: And the attack roll is made with the effect of the spell, not something affected by the spell, as with the barrel in the telekinesis example.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the attack roll is made as part of casting it. Or if the attack roll is made by the caster during the duration of the spell.

Like Telekinesis?

-Hyp.

 

[javcs]

You had to post while I was editing that part in, 'cause I hadn't seen the telekinesis example didn't you?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the attack roll is made as part of casting it. Or if the attack roll is made by the caster during the duration of the spell.

EDIT: And the attack roll is made with the effect of the spell, not something affected by the spell, as with the barrel in the telekinesis example.

It seems like a very convoluted set of requirements just to deal with Orb spells...

It wouldn't be easier to say "For Conjurations, Spells with Targets, and Spells with Areas, and Spell with Effects-That-Are-Orbs?"

-Hyp.

 

[javcs]

It seems like a very convoluted set of requirements just to deal with Orb spells...

It wouldn't be easier to say "For Conjurations, Spells with Targets, and Spells with Areas, and Spell with Effects-That-Are-Orbs?"

-Hyp.

I never said it was well written.

As is, it also includes spells like Produce Flame, and any other spells that WotC might come out with that are atypical like the Orb spells.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As is, it also includes spells like Produce Flame, and any other spells that WotC might come out with that are atypical like the Orb spells.

But why do you consider them atypical?

Why should the attack roll being made in the same action as casting change whether or not someone is immune to it?

If I cast a hypothetical instantaneous creation spell, "Create Spear", that allowed me to create a spear... and then next round, I throw it, he's not immune.

But I cast a hypothetical instantaneous creation spell, "Improved Create Spear", that allowed me to create a spear and throw it... by your conditions, he is immune.

What's the difference between the first and second spears that makes him immune to one and not the other? The fact that the second spell let me throw it sooner?

-Hyp.