Spelljammer Spelljammer, 5e, and the general angst against all things space

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel
I am having a personal dilemma in my long term ongoing gaming world and group of players. I freaking love Spelljammer. The moment it was introduced by TSR it became integral to almost every aspect of any campaign I DM'd, any adventure I wrote.

The issue is that no matter how hard I try and integrate it into any of the games since moving here to Jacksonville, it keeps getting met with resistance, if not outright hostility. So far I have painstakingly converted everything to 3.0/3.5. then to Pathfinder, and now to 5e. The issue is they are still Luke Warm as far as being receptive is concerned, at best.

Now, I admit, openly and freely - Spelljammer is my baby. It's my personal sweet spot. I absolutely love it, and can't see the game without it. As a player, or a DM I don't want the game without it. It is obviously, painfully so, just how geeked I am when it comes to Spelljamming as far as my players are concerned.

We have a great group, and play a great, fun, game and have a great time doing so. But for me, this one part is lacking. I need to figure out how to persuade them, to move them from ambivalence and opposition to acceptance and possibly even enjoyment. Does anyone have any suggestions? How can I light that Spelljammer FIRE!!!!!

Don't tell them the campaign is set in space or that some of it will happen in space. If they are exploring a cave, maybe that cave has a portal that leads to more tunnels in an asteroid. It is only when they fight the BBEG on the asteroid, with a view of all the stars in space that they realize where they are. If the dungeon crawl was cool, why can't adventures in space be cool? Just make sure to have Spelljammer elements in it without being explicite.

Another way to do this is to bring Spelljammer to them. A meteor shower can be either a spaceship full of aliens that crashed or maybe space invaders inside rocklike eggs. Have an observatory with a telescope that acts as portal when looking at certain stars.

The Iron Gods Pathfinder AP might be able to help you in the department. Check it out.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Well, I always did enjoy the old Star Frontiers (with Zebulon's), Gamma World, or, especially, Paranoia game back in the day. And there are many fantastic SciFi RPGs (of course).

But I'm always drawn back to fantasy RPGs. Which is odd, because I prefer to read SciFi, and (for the most part) watch SciFi. Go Fig.

I think that's very common. Sci-fi traditionally does better than fantasy in cinema and TV, while fantasy traditionally outsells sci-fi in tabletop RPGs.
 

Dausuul

Legend
like how come Krynn's stars rearrange themselves at times, but Oerth's don't? To me, the answer was one word: magic. Simple solution to something that most players wouldn't have even cared about. Instead they had Crystal Spheres....and so forth.
That's not a problem that can be solved with a one-word answer when you have people in spacecraft that can actually travel to the stars. You have to at least settle the question of what the stars are. Otherwise people will naturally default to our real-world understanding of stars, which is that they are giant balls of nuclear-fusing plasma. If that's the case, then stars rearranging themselves like they do on Krynn has some very big consequences.

"Magic" can be an effective way to explain why something is happening, but does nothing to describe what is happening or what the consequences are. One of the chief differences between RPGs and fiction is that a fiction writer can avoid wrestling with the full consequences of his or her invented world. DMs, and by extension game publishers, don't have that luxury, because you don't control what dark corners of the world your players will poke their noses into.
 

Andor

First Post
See, the crystal spheres and phlogiston and all that pseudo-science type stuff was what made me not like the setting despite some of the other cool things about it that I enjoyed.

To me, most of that stuff was designed to explain how all the worlds fit together in a coherent way, and I always thought they made it far more murky.

Crystal spheres and phlogiston are both real world theories. Outmoded ones long since abandoned, but still real world source material.

On topic if your players aren't sold on the mention of gun-toting anthropomorphic hippopotamai with british accents I'm not sure how to help them. I mean you.

You might try sneaking in a few of the cooler Spelljammer magic items and seeing if they bite. Hell, toss them a Crown of Stars. I'll never understand how anyone could not love a setting that includes bottomless barrels of salt pork and the hold of holding.
 

Bleys Icefalcon

First Post
Do you use the whole Crystal Sphere concept, and the whacky gravity rules or what?

And what are the features your players seem to not like? Can you give specifics?

Ok... a list of the various objections:

1. Orcs? In space? Really?

2. That ship looks like a porcupine.

3. You're telling me a person get's knocked off of a ship, in space, and he takes an envelope of oxygen with him? He doesn't, immediately suffer from explosive decompression?

4. They think the point and go mechanic is too simple. They think the modifications I made to make it more challenging are too hard. I added two additional "technologies" to the vessels: Radian drives, and Metta Sails.

Radian crystals - Specially prepared gems of various size, value and type can be alchemically treated to make them store kinetic energy. A Radian Pilot can operatoe up to two Radian Arrays on a vessel (usually comprising 70-100 gems per array, usually artfully imbedded in various patterns on the hull, keel and especially the rudder of a vessel. For every 5 tons of a vessel a minimum of 1 array is needed to effectively boost speed in wildspace, and most importantly boost maneuverability. Only of use in an atmosphere or in wildspace.

Metta Sails - Specially prepared sailcloth that catches metamagical particles that move in, with, and in some cases significantly faster than the flow. Used exclusively to increase SR in the flow.

5. they see DnD as being crawling in dungeons and fighting dragons. Their view of the game tends to be simpler and doesn't allow for a whole lot of out of the box thinking

6. It's dumb

7. It doesn't make sense

8. I thought we were playing DnD
 
Last edited:

KirayaTiDrekan

Adventurer
I also adore Spelljammer. My wife hates the wonky, Victorian pseudo-science, but doesn't mind the other stuff, so we compromise. My Spelljammer thus has normal, real world physics, with the Astral Plane used as hyperspace to cut down travel times. Spelljamming ships are enchanted to provide gravity and air. Everything else is pretty much the same.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
That's not a problem that can be solved with a one-word answer when you have people in spacecraft that can actually travel to the stars. You have to at least settle the question of what the stars are. Otherwise people will naturally default to our real-world understanding of stars, which is that they are giant balls of nuclear-fusing plasma. If that's the case, then stars rearranging themselves like they do on Krynn has some very big consequences.

"Magic" can be an effective way to explain why something is happening, but does nothing to describe what is happening or what the consequences are. One of the chief differences between RPGs and fiction is that a fiction writer can avoid wrestling with the full consequences of his or her invented world. DMs, and by extension game publishers, don't have that luxury, because you don't control what dark corners of the world your players will poke their noses into.

It can though. Who says the stars actually move? The gods are back and now they make those stars visible. Magic.

I simplified it, but my point is they spent a lot of time explaining something that I don't think would have been a problem for most players.

Crystal spheres and phlogiston are both real world theories. Outmoded ones long since abandoned, but still real world source material.

On topic if your players aren't sold on the mention of gun-toting anthropomorphic hippopotamai with british accents I'm not sure how to help them. I mean you.

You might try sneaking in a few of the cooler Spelljammer magic items and seeing if they bite. Hell, toss them a Crown of Stars. I'll never understand how anyone could not love a setting that includes bottomless barrels of salt pork and the hold of holding.

Fair enough. Poor choice of words on my part. I should have said "included" rather than "designed".
 

Mirtek

Hero
If you want to show them a spelljammer movie, go watch the 2015 Pan movie.

If one doesn't like spelljammer after that, one will never like it
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
Ok... a list of the various objections:

1. Orcs? In space? Really?

2. That ship looks like a porcupine.

3. You're telling me a person get's knocked off of a ship, in space, and he takes an envelope of oxygen with him? He doesn't, immediately suffer from explosive decompression?

4. They think the point and go mechanic is too simple. They think the modifications I made to make it more challenging are too hard. I added two additional "technologies" to the vessels: Radian drives, and Metta Sails.

Radian crystals - Specially prepared gems of various size, value and type can be alchemically treated to make them store kinetic energy. A Radian Pilot can operatoe up to two Radian Arrays on a vessel (usually comprising 70-100 gems per array, usually artfully imbedded in various patterns on the hull, keel and especially the rudder of a vessel. For every 5 tons of a vessel a minimum of 1 array is needed to effectively boost speed in wildspace, and most importantly boost maneuverability. Only of use in an atmosphere or in wildspace.

Metta Sails - Specially prepared sailcloth that catches metamagical particles that move in, with, and in some cases significantly faster than the flow. Used exclusively to increase SR in the flow.

5. they see DnD as being crawling in dungeons and fighting dragons. Their view of the game tends to be simpler and doesn't allow for a whole lot of out of the box thinking

6. It's dumb

7. It doesn't make sense

8. I thought we were playing DnD

Okay gotcha. I share some of their concerns, although not as strongly, I am guessing.

What I would do is ignore the science aspect...the how of it all. In a world where magic exists, I would say just use that as the default means. Have spelljammers simply be magical ships. I realize you probably put a lot of work into the Mettasails and Radian Crystals....but I would leave that stuff alone for now. Bring it up down the road if it becomes a point of interest.

I would also let space work how we know it works, for the most part. Ships have a magical atmosphere, but if you fall of the ship, you're in big trouble. Unless you've got an airsuit or something like that. Keep gravity working how they expect it. Make it all less jarring...don't mess with their expectations too much. Similar to how the actual world of your game shares expectations with our real world. I think this makes the buy in easier on their part.

Don't do orcs in space. Do a new or unused race, one specifically designed for these space adventures. This way the players have to learn about the race instead of altering what they already know.

I would ease them in, as many others have said. Don't just throw them into space and then explain that there are galactic empires of Illithida and Giff and so on. Instead, have them transported elsewhere somehow...keep it mysterious, and slowly reveal the situation. This prepares then a little at a time so that by the time you reveal that they're in space or on another world (a magical space station would probably be best, since it's essentially a dungeon), they'll have been broken in to the idea. Have the folks they encounter be a bit different than expected...unfamiliar with their home world and so on. Leave little clues. This may be tricky if your players know about your enthusiasm and anticipate it, but this is what I would try.

Finally, have an out. Let them return to their world after the adventure concludes. Now they'll know their world is part of a bigger one, but they can ignore that bigger world if that's what they want, or they can get more involved. You'll know which it will be. No need to end a campaign and the careers of characters they may like just because they don't like the Spelljammer aspect.

All in all, I say focus on it just being magic and treat it accordingly, and keep it subtle at first.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Who says the stars actually move? The gods are back and now they make those stars visible.
This statement is not even remotely implied by the single word "magic." You've moved from the one-word "magic" to providing an explanation of what's going on. It's a perfectly serviceable explanation and could work very well in-game. But crystal spheres is also a perfectly serviceable explanation that could work very well in-game.
 

Remove ads

Top