Spelljammer Spelljammer in D&D 5e Speculation: How Will the Setting Be Changed?

[LuisCarlos17f]

We can agree we will seee "voidjammers" in the 5th, and there is not contradiction with Spelljammer lore.

The last module of 2nd Ed was about Vecna creating troubles, again, and this caused the "reboot" of the complete D&D multiverse. WotC has got a relatively logical excuse to explain all possible retcon.

In my opinion the possible niche for Spelljammer is to allow fantasy (homebred) mash-up version of famous sci-fi franchises from comics, videogames or cinemas&TV.

* And what about the bionoids? Those biotech simbiont armours, wished by more than one munchkin. At least as source of inspiration to publish a manga about this.

Bionoid

A Bionoid is a creature from the Spelljammer campaign setting.[1][2] "... conventional military odds favored one bionoid against ten fully armed scro." - General Grimnosh, Sky Shark Battalion[3] Bionoids are chitinous, insectile bipedal humanoids with a glowing circular gem in the center of...

spelljammer.fandom.com

* Could a partnership deal between DC and Hasbro allow a republication of Spelljammer comics?

* And Spelljammer creatures and races as skins in Fortnite?

 

[see]

It’s like claiming that Star Trek completely c changed what made it Star Trek to the point of not being recognizable when they introduced the Mirror Universe.

I used the words "ordinary", "regularly", and "routinely" above advisedly.

Original Spelljammer had the Pirates of Gith able to take (certain) spelljammers to the Astral. That is a different thing from every spelljammer being capable of interplanar travel. It is even more different than, as has been suggested, every spelljammer having to engage in interplanar travel to go between systems. It is the difference between Star Trek having an occasional Mirror Universe episode, and Star Trek having the transporters routinely used for travel to various parallel universes.

And, well, this goes back to my post on the key defect of 2nd edition Spelljammer being when the "AD&D in space" project explicitly became an AD&D meta-setting. Adding extensive planar travel to Spelljammer is the exact opposite of fixing that; it makes Spelljammer less D&D set in space, and more meta-setting.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Yeah, I think that it's a lot easier and less damaging to integrate the two than one would think.

One other thing that comes up in Planescape is that the Ethereal plane is the connective tissue between all matter, whereas the Astral plane is the connective tissue between all mind.

Huh.

In that 2e cosmology, the phlogiston is the threshold between ethereal force and material matter.

In other words:

Shallow Ethereal = phlogiston

In other words:

Phlogiston are the forces that interact with matter, including both gravity and ghosts.

In a 5e context, there is Fey phlogiston (ethereal forces infused by positivity) and Shadow phlogiston (ethereal forces dampened by negativity).

Planescape's art, logo, font, cartography is all so very 90s and perfect.

The planar map in the Planescape boxed set is one of my favorite pieces of art D&D has ever released.

 

[overgeeked]

Yeah, I think that it's a lot easier and less damaging to integrate the two than one would think.

One other thing that comes up in Planescape is that the Ethereal plane is the connective tissue between all matter, whereas the Astral plane is the connective tissue between all mind.

Planescape's art, logo, font, cartography is all so very 90s and perfect.

Right. As long as they're two separate and self-contained but overlapping ideas, it can absolutely work. Spelljammers that can travel between crystal spheres and into the phlogiston and also hop planes. That absolutely works. Tearing out all the unique things about Spelljammer to shoehorn it into the Planescape model..."Nah just kidding, Spelljammer ships have always just traveled the astral sea, lol...what's a crystal sphere"...not so much. Add, don't subtract.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I used the words "ordinary", "regularly", and "routinely" above advisedly.

Original Spelljammer had the Pirates of Gith able to take (certain) spelljammers to the Astral. That is a different thing from every spelljammer being capable of interplanar travel. It is even more different than, as has been suggested, every spelljammer having to engage in interplanar travel to go between systems. It is the difference between Star Trek having an occasional Mirror Universe episode, and Star Trek having the transporters routinely used for travel to various parallel universes.

And, well, this goes back to my post on the key defect of 2nd edition Spelljammer being when the "AD&D in space" project explicitly became an AD&D meta-setting. Adding extensive planar travel to Spelljammer is the exact opposite of fixing that; it makes Spelljammer less D&D set in space, and more meta-setting.

I think it will be an upgrade that can be purchased to Spelljammers ships,, although it may come standards in some like Nautiliods and Gith Spelljammers.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I'm pro-Planejammer... but also anti-Planejammer.

Pro in that I do want to the two settings to connect, and not really contradict each other. A cohesive cosmology can have both, and have both make sense.

I'm anti in that I don't really need both smooshed into one book. For adventures, they kind of meet different niches, and I don't want to see the two competing for page space.

 

[Jer]

Right. As long as they're two separate and self-contained but overlapping ideas, it can absolutely work. Spelljammers that can travel between crystal spheres and into the phlogiston and also hop planes. That absolutely works. Tearing out all the unique things about Spelljammer to shoehorn it into the Planescape model..."Nah just kidding, Spelljammer ships have always just traveled the astral sea, lol...what's a crystal sphere"...not so much. Add, don't subtract.

My personal suspicion is that if crystal spheres are maintained the mechanics of them will be changed. I suspect that not every setting will be in a crystal sphere because it's way too limiting. Just like every setting can have its own cosmology, different settings can have their own fantasy physics as well. Mystara, for example, was never in a crystal sphere - and is by canon in a galaxy where space travelers with advanced technology have visited it in the past. While that can be justified with crystal spheres, it shouldn't have to be. So some might be floating in crystal spheres, some might be in a universe much like ours, and some might have some other structure entirely.

(The crystal sphere cosmology was a hack to allow Krynn into the Spelljammer model. It was the answer to "how can Krynn's constellations disappear when the gods are walking on Krynn". I remember an interview with Jeff Grub IIRC where he talked about the origins of the crystal spheres and that was his big rationale for them. And it was a way to make it so that the fantasy worlds weren't tied to each other in the same galaxy or something like that - you don't have to worry about explaining how they relate to each other in space if they're all just floating in crystal balls in some kind of explosive ether substance. Personally I would have preferred portals between alternate Prime Material Planes as the answer to that question but I wasn't on the design team.)

 

[overgeeked]

My personal suspicion is that if crystal spheres are maintained the mechanics of them will be changed. I suspect that not every setting will be in a crystal sphere because it's way too limiting.

I have the opposite view. Without the crystal spheres the usefulness of Spelljammer as a meta-setting is limited. Without the crystal spheres you have to come up with reasons why settings with different cosmologies can exist in the same prime material plane. You have to explain why different settings have different patterns of stars. You have to explain how some settings are heliocentric whilst others are geocentric. The same problems the crystal spheres were invented to solve will need to be solved again if the crystal spheres are removed.

Just like every setting can have its own cosmology, different settings can have their own fantasy physics as well. Mystara, for example, was never in a crystal sphere - and is by canon in a galaxy where space travelers with advanced technology have visited it in the past. While that can be justified with crystal spheres, it shouldn't have to be. So some might be floating in crystal spheres, some might be in a universe much like ours, and some might have some other structure entirely.

Well, it doesn't have to be. It just makes things infinitely easier. Without the crystal spheres you have to take time to explain how each setting's unique this or that interacts with the space around it. How each of these things are possible and how the contradictory explanations are all correct. Or...crystal spheres.

(The crystal sphere cosmology was a hack to allow Krynn into the Spelljammer model. It was the answer to "how can Krynn's constellations disappear when the gods are walking on Krynn". I remember an interview with Jeff Grub IIRC where he talked about the origins of the crystal spheres and that was his big rationale for them. And it was a way to make it so that the fantasy worlds weren't tied to each other in the same galaxy or something like that - you don't have to worry about explaining how they relate to each other in space if they're all just floating in crystal balls in some kind of explosive ether substance. Personally I would have preferred portals between alternate Prime Material Planes as the answer to that question but I wasn't on the design team.)

Sure, to each there own. But the current devs have already said the various settings are all on the same material plane. They've mentioned phlogiston and crystal spheres, too IIRC.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I have the opposite view. Without the crystal spheres the usefulness of Spelljammer as a meta-setting is limited. Without the crystal spheres you have to come up with reasons why settings with different cosmologies can exist in the same prime material plane. You have to explain why different settings have different patterns of stars. You have to explain how some settings are heliocentric whilst others are geocentric. The same problems the crystal spheres were invented to solve will need to be solved again if the crystal spheres are removed.

Well, it doesn't have to be. It just makes things infinitely easier. Without the crystal spheres you have to take time to explain how each setting's unique this or that interacts with the space around it. How each of these things are possible and how the contradictory explanations are all correct. Or...crystal spheres.

Sure, to each there own. But the current devs have already said the various settings are all on the same material plane. They've mentioned phlogiston and crystal spheres, too IIRC.

Yeah I agree, I'd be really surprised if 5e ditches Crystal Spheres. I don't believe the term has been published, but it's been mentioned in interviews before and on Sage Advice for example. It was used as the explanation for how Eberron can have a self-contained cosmology, so seems fairly important.

As far as I know however, phlogiston has not been mentioned, even in interviews. I'm actually thinking they will dump it and replace it with something like the Astral, to make Planescape/Spelljammer a little more consistent and easy to understand.

If I were to design it, I'd think of the Astral Plane like swiss cheese, pocketed by holes of the Material Planes (and other planes). Even if the Crystal Spheres aren't directly connected through the Material Plane, they are still part of the Material Plane together and are bound by the same rules for magic, and can connect through teleportation circles etc.

 

[overgeeked]

Yeah I agree, I'd be really surprised if 5e ditches Crystal Spheres. I don't believe the term has been published, but it's been mentioned in interviews before and on Sage Advice for example. It was used as the explanation for how Eberron can have a self-contained cosmology, so seems fairly important.

As far as I know however, phlogiston has not been mentioned, even in interviews. I'm actually thinking they will dump it and replace it with something like the Astral, to make Planescape/Spelljammer a little more consistent and easy to understand.

If I were to design it, I'd think of the Astral Plane like swiss cheese, pocketed by holes of the Material Planes (and other planes). Even if the Crystal Spheres aren't directly connected through the Material Plane, they are still part of the Material Plane together and are bound by the same rules for magic, and can connect through teleportation circles etc.

I could have sworn phlogiston was mentioned a few times, maybe 2-3, but I have nothing to point to as evidence. So shrug.