Spellpoint system: any ideas?

[LoneWolf23]

By spellpoint, I mean moving to a mana-points type magic system, as opposed to the vancian one currently in use. Thus far, the best idea I've come up with involves taking the spellcasters' daily spellslots and add them up into a "Spellpoint Pool", with each spell having a cost equal to it's level. But spellcasters would be limited to casting spells available to their levels. Cantrips would cost half a spell point, and Metamagics would increase the spellpoint: a Maximized 1st level Magic Missile would cost as much as a 4rth level spell.

A fifth level wizard with 4/3/2/1 spellslots would have a total of 8 spellpoints, for exemple, but he couldn't cast a spell higher then 3rd level. If he's a specialised, then he gets bonus spellpoints equal to the level of the bonus spell instead, available only for his specialty college. A fifth level Sorceror would have 15 spellpoints, but couldn't cast spells higher then 2nd level. Usual spell-knowledge limitations would also apply: a wizard could cast any spell inside his spellbook, while Sorcerors would be limited to a specific number of spells, and Clerics could cast any spell granted by their deity. (Domain Spells would remain 1/day deals, like supernatural abilities).

Repleneshing Spellpoints would involve daily rest, but also ritual action appropriate to the class: Wizards study their spellbooks, Sorcerors Meditate, Clerics and Paladins Pray, Sorcerors and Rangers commune with nature and Bards perform.

Wizards and Sorcerors would preserve their usual flavors and roles. The Sorceror still has more "staying power", but the Wizard has more versatility; the sorceror can keep casting that fireball for longer, but the wizard has a wider range of spells available.

Any comments/criticisms/alternate suggestions?

 

[Xorial]

I originally posted this over on the Wizard boards.

Mage Core Class

This is an alternate to having two separate arcane spell casters. This class attempts to more closely simulate the types of arcane spellcasters one finds in novels and movies. In such media, the casters can learn any number of spells. Additionally, said characters rarely have to memorize spells every night. This class introduces a spell point system.
Another aspect of wizards and sorcerers in novels, is the concept of magical talent being necessary to first begin training. This is simulated in game terms by basing a character’s spell points on their charisma scores. Making this class akin to the core sorcerer. The ability to learn. and cast, a spell is based on the character’s intelligence. This feature combines both core arcane caster classes into one class. Rules will be introduced to use the spell point system with other classes.
This class should be used in place of the standard wizard and sorcerer core classes.

Alignment: Any.
Races: Mainly humans and half-elves, but may be of any race.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Mages have the following game statistics.
Abilities: The mage’s spell point capacity is controlled by her charisma. Additionally, the ability to cast spells is controlled by her intelligence. To cast a given spell, the mage’s intelligence must be equal to 10 + the spell’s level.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d4.
Class Skills
The mage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Alchemy (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (any) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int, exclusive skill), Sense Motive (Cha), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4: Skills in the Player’s Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + INT modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + INT modifier.

[color=silver]
Level	BAB	Fort 	Ref 	Will 	Special				Spell Points
1st	+0	+0	+0	+2	Summon Familiar, Bonus Feat	1
2nd	+1	+0	+0	+3					3
3rd	+1	+1	+1	+3					6
4th	+2	+1	+1	+4					10
5th	+2	+1	+1	+4	Bonus Feat			15
6th	+3	+2	+2	+5					21
7th	+3	+2	+2	+5					28
8th	+4	+2	+2	+6					36
9th	+4	+3	+3	+6					45
10th	+5	+3	+3	+7	Bonus Feat			55
11th	+5	+3	+3	+7					66
12th	+6/+1	+4	+4	+8					78
13th	+6/+1	+4	+4	+8					91
14th	+7/+2	+4	+4	+9					105
15th	+7/+2	+5	+5	+9	Bonus Feat			120
16th	+8/+3	+5	+5	+10					136
17th	+8/+3	+5	+5	+10					153
18th	+9/+4	+6	+6	+11					171
19th	+9/+4	+6	+6	+11					190
20th	+10/+5	+6	+6	+12	Bonus Feat			210[/color]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the mage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mages are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor, nor with shields.

Spells: A mage casts arcane spells. The number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma bonus. The spells a mage knows can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer and wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the mage has gained some understanding of by study.
To learn or cast a spell, a mage must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell's level. A mage's bonus spells learned are based on Intelligence. The Difficulty Class for saving throws against mage’s spells is 10 + the spell's level + the mage's charisma modifier.
To cast a spell, the mage makes a spellcraft check with a DC of 10 + spell’s level. Any metamagic feat’s adjusted levels are added to the DC when making the check.
A mage begins at first level knowing all cantrips in the PHB and 2 + Intelligence modifier number of 1st level spells. Each time she gains a level, she learns her Intelligence modifier number of spells + 1.
Each mage casts spells by using spell points. Her charisma score determines the bonus number of spell points a mage has. She gets her charisma score bonus x level added to her class points. She spends 1 point per spell level to cast a spell. Mages can cast a number of cantrips per day equal to her key ability modifier plus half her caster level without spending any spell points. After her allotted number, she must spend 1 point per cantrip.

Bonus Feats: Every five levels, a mage bonus feat. This feat must be a metamagic feat or item creation feat.

Spellbooks: Mage’s keep a private copy of their spells in a spellbook. Mages do not have to study their spellbooks, but a mages that does take time to study her spellbook gets a +4 competance bonus to spellcraft checks.

Spell Mastery: A mage (and only a mage) can take the special feat Spell Mastery. Each time the wizard takes this feat, choose a number of spells equal to the mage's Intelligence modifier (they must be spells that the mage already knows). From that point on, the mage need not study the spell every night. Concentration checks made while casting the spell can be made by taking 10. Furthermore, any metamagic feats applied no longer increase the casting times of these spells.

I will post the rules for the spell point system next. I'm toying with the concept of using prestige classes for specialized mages. I fell that a mage would first learn general magic, then after she gains some levels, she will know where her talents lie, then specialze from there.

Updated 8-26-03:
Changed the spellbook rules a bit. Allow for some mages that dont keep up with spellbooks, but give a bonus to those that do.

 

[Xorial]

Abilities & Spellpoints

Each spellcasting class has spellcasting capability tied to a specific Ability, as described by that class. If a character's score in that ability is 9 or lower, the character can't cast spells tied to that ability.

Arcane spell casters use their intelligence score to determine the level of spell they are able to cast. Divine casters use wisdom.

Each character gets as number of spell points each day to spend in order to cast spells. The exact number of points is determined by the ability that represents the spellcaster’s magical abilities. Arcane casters use charisma for this. Divine casters use wisdom. The character gains the listed spell point total for her class, as well as the key ability bonus multiplied by her caster level/2, rounded up.

[COLOR=skyblue]
Level	Mage	Cleric/Druid	Bard	Paladin/Ranger
1st	2	2		2	--
2nd	3	3		3	--
3RD	6	4		4	--
4th	10	7		5	1
5th	15	10		8	1
6th	21	15		11	2
7th	28	20		16	2
8th	36	27		21	2
9th	45	34		26	3
10th	55	43		33	3
11th	66	52		40	3
12th	78	63		47	5
13th	91	74		56	5
14th	105	87		65	5
15th	120	100		74	7
16th	136	115		85	7
17th	153	130		96	7
18th	171	147		107	9
19th	190	164		118	9
20th	210	183		129	9
[/color]

CASTING A SPELL

To cast a spell, the character must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, the character must concentrate to cast a spell. (See SRD or PHB for details.)

If a spell has multiple versions, the character chooses which version to use when the character casts it. The character doesn't have to prepare or learn a specific version of the spell.

To cast a spell, the character must spend a number of spell points equal to the spell's point cost. Characters with access to cantrips/orisons can cast a number of these spells equal to her key ability modifier plus half her caster level per day without spending any spell points. After her allotted number, she must spend 1 point per spell.

A spell’s cost is determined by its level, as shown below.

[COLOR=skyblue]
Spell Level	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
point cost	0/1	1	3	5	7	9	11	13	15	17[/color]

Casting Time

The character can cast a spell with a casting time of 1 action as a standard action.

A spell that takes 1 full round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of the character's turn in the round after the character began casting the spell. The character then acts normally after the spell is completed. A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before the character's turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, the character is casting a spell as a full-round action).

The character must make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, etc.) when the character begins casting.

When applying metamagic effects to a spell, the casting times are increased. A spell with a casting time of 1 action becomes a full round to cast. Those with longer casting times add 1 round to their times. Certain spells do not increase in casting time. Cure/inflict * wounds spells cast by clerics, as well as any domain spells. Mages do not apply the increase when casting spells that are chosen when the spell mastery feat is taken.

Updated 8-26-03
Added the point cost mechanic from the Psi Handbook. Since I did this I added a point progression to the Ranger/Paladins. This would allow those with Wis of 11 to at least cast their 1st level spells like the can in the core class. I also upped the Bard to match the psychic warrior. I know adding the ability bonus will allow alot more points than the Psi Handbook chart, but I dont like how they give bonus points for stats, but I see that every level will give too many points. I'm changing it to caster level/2 rounded up.

 

[reapersaurus]

Xorial - your table seems to not give Bards enough points, and completely nerfs Paladins and Rangers, while upping the power of the mage.

I compared your table to the Bard, and Wizard....

Doesn't this mage take the best of both the wizard and the sorcerer (at first glance)?

 

[RangerWickett]

I suggest you take a look at E.N. Publishing's The Elements of Magic. We'll be putting out a revised version in a few weeks, and if you like, email me and I can show you a teaser.

RangerWickett@hotmail.com

 

[AeroDm]

There is an inherent problem with making D&D magic into spell points. The spells


The power of a spell increases with caster level. I assume you plan to have 1st level spells cost 1 pt, 2nd cost 3, and so on (similar to the psion). the problem is that at 9th level a magic missile is 5d4+5 for 1 pt. Very attractive.

If you look at the psion book the powers don't really scale with caster level. They gain range and duration, but not power/damage. This is what makes that system work, and also what breaks it for D&D arcane.

 

[RangerWickett]

Exactly what we're doing for the revisions of The Elements of Magic. The amount of MP you spend determines the strength of your spell, not your caster level.

Of course, your caster level determines how many MP you can spend on a given spell.

 

[Xorial]

Xorial - your table seems to not give Bards enough points, and completely nerfs Paladins and Rangers, while upping the power of the mage.

I compared your table to the Bard, and Wizard....

Doesn't this mage take the best of both the wizard and the sorcerer (at first glance)?

Actually, if you figure out the number of spellpoints available at 20th level, including bonuses from high stats, you cast the same number of total spell levels as a traditional core class. This assumes high enough stats to cast the highest level spells available to the character. At lower levels, you actually can cast more spells than a core sorcerer. The Rangers & Paladins come out the same way. assuming a 14 wisdom, at 20th level, the total spell levels cast per day are close to a core paladin/ranger. giving them a poin progression overpowers those classes. Bards got the same treatment. If any of the classes has exceptionally higher than normal stats, they begin to "runaway" from what a core class can do, in terms of total spell levels and metamagic.

In a very real sense, this does take the best of wizard & sorcerer. This may seem like a "munchkin" approach, but what I did was put the 2 classes back together. 1e/2e wizards could cast alot more spells that 3/3.5e. I offset this by making the class have 2 primary abilities. High Charisma for spellpoints, but you need a high Intelligence to actually learn higher level spells. most aren't going to have both that high. If you use the point buy system for character creation, you will either have a character that casts alot of spells, or one that knows alot. This then goes back to the sorcerer and wizard differences.

 

[Xorial]

I should also point out that I'm just now getting a chance to playtest this system. So far, it is working out ok, but nobody is getting high enough in level to really show off any potential problems. If somebody here tries this out & finds soemthing that could use tweaking, I would really like to hear about it. My main prolem I'm having, is if I'm going to make the metamagic feats increase effective level, along with increased cost in spellpoints. Just increasing the spellpoints allows lower level characters the option to modify spells, something a core class can't do till higher levels. If I leave it that way, I was thinking of making the caster make a spellcraft check (DC = spellpoints spent + 10). That way, a mage casting a quickened magic missle spell makes a check at a DC 14.

 

[Zerakon]

Feel free to check out my Will Power system of unified mysticism which includes a "spellpoint" system as well as ways for non-spellcasters to use their inner willpower (the same energy that powers up spells).

-- Zerakon the Game Mage