Spells: 10th level and higher, a proposal

[Vrecknidj]

It's a rather long and involved explanation, but I can prove it, if you're interested. UK has also come to the same conclusion, but we differ on HOW you should get the new spells - he says they should be feat-only, like ISC, and I contend you should get them automatically. I'm not really sure who's right, or even if one approach is more right than the other.

Proof? Do you mean, in terms of using feats to acquire spell levels? I could see that.

Dave

 

[Jack Simth]

Break Enchantment, Greater
Abjuration
Level: Brd 9, Clr 10, Luck 10, Pal 9, Sor/Wiz 10
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: Up to one creature per level, all within 30 ft. of each other
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

This spell frees victims from enchantments, transmutations, and curses. Break enchantment, greater can reverse even an instantaneous effect. For each such effect, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level, maximum +25) against a DC of 11 + caster level of the effect. Success means that the creature is free of the spell, curse, or effect. For a cursed magic item, the DC is 25.

If the spell is one that cannot be dispelled by dispel magic, break enchantment, greater works only if that spell is 7th level or lower.

If the effect comes from some permanent magic item break enchantment, greater does not remove the curse from the item, but it does frees the victim from the item’s effects.

Disintigrate is a 6th level Instantaneous Transmutation...... but that probably won't pose a problem.

Disintegration Cone
Transmutation
Level: Destruction 11, Sor/Wiz 10
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 60 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes

A coruscating, green field emanates from your outstretched hands. The field creates a cone of destructive power that disintegrates everything in its path. Any creature struck by the cone takes 2d6 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 50d6). Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. A disintegrated creature’s equipment is treated as unattended objects (see below).

When used against an object, the cone simply disintegrates everything within the area, subject to the dimensions of the cone. Thus, objects very close to the caster may lie wholly or partially outside the effect area, whereas items in the middle of the burst are probably entirely subjected to the effect. The cone even affects objects constructed entirely of force, such as forceful hand or a wall of force, but not magical effects such as a globe of invulnerability or an antimagic field.

A creature or object that makes a successful Fortitude save is partially affected, taking only 10d6 points of damage. If this damage reduces the creature or object to 0 or fewer hit points, it is entirely disintegrated.

Arcane Material Component: A lodestone and a pinch of dust.

This is on the order of Disjunction on how often people will use it, and for the same reasons.... but on the plus side, this one leaves Fighter's mostly alone while laying the kill down on spellcasters (except Clerics, Druids, and other high-Fort save spellcasters).

True Seeing, Mass
Divination
Level: Clr 10, Drd 11, Knowledge 10, Sor/Wiz 10
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart

This spell functions exactly as true seeing except as indicated above.

Poor illusionists. Still, if you let Nondetection function against True Seeing, they've got a chance.

Oh, and do you make the caster apply the ointment to everyone in advance? Do you need different amounts of the ointment for different numbers of targets?

True Strike, Mass
Divination
Level: Sor/Wiz 10
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart

This spell functions exactly as true strike except as indicated above.

Would never prepare it. Too many other things that will normally be much more useful at that level.

Antimagic Field, Greater
Abjuration
Level: Clr 13, Magic 11, Protection 11, Sor/Wiz 11
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 20 ft.
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: See text

An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines. However, any spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that you use or have access to remain fully functional within this space.

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it; unless that effect was created by you. Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.

Summoned creatures of any type (except those summoned by you) and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that); if that magic sword is wielded by you, it retains its magical properties. The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field, though Mage's Disjunction might.

Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.

Arcane Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron or iron filings.

A literal parse of the line about spells or magical effects being suppressed but not dispelled would indicate that yours are dispelled. Surrounding text indicates that's not the intent. You may wish to clairify.

Power-wise, this is too much of a "win" button for spellcasters. This plus a Quickened Dominate Person (Time Stop, this, Dimension Door into range, and a Quickened Dominate Person if range is an issue) fixes basically any humanoid opponent without natural SR except on a nat-20, and that's using this and core-only material. Tack on the Epic feat Permanent Emanation for this, and you're esentially untouchable. Tack on Permanent Emanation, Foresight, Celerity, and Time Stop, and you really are untouchable (except against a similiar build walking into range and turning everything but your GAMF off). The biggest balance of an AMF is that it affects the caster too. This removes that. I cannot think of any level wherein this is a balanced spell. If it had to make a Suppression check (similar to a dispel check, but doesn't destroy the affected magical effect, just suppresses it while in the area) it might work out (other spellcasters have a reasonable chance to resist, high-end magic items will sometimes continue to work, et cetera). As written, however, it's a total must-have for basically any build that can get it. Which pretty much means it's broken.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Thanks for the thoughful responses Jack Simth. I was thinking that the mass true strike is probably better as maybe a 7th level spell (I figured that if limited wish could pull it off, then maybe it shouldn't be higher than 7th).

The clarification for the greater antimagic field should certainly be forthcoming. All these spells were sort of hacked together in a flurry late one night. I hadn't given any of them the attention to detail that actually devising a system would require. I wanted to get the post up while I was thinking about it, and while I had the time to do it.

"As written, however, it's a total must-have for basically any build that can get it. Which pretty much means it's broken." That's true. Anything that's a must have is broken. Back to the drawing board with that one.

Dave

 

[Kerrick]

Proof? Do you mean, in terms of using feats to acquire spell levels? I could see that.

No, no. The "feats for spell levels" approach is UK's, not mine. I was talking about why it should be 1/3 levels instead of 1/4.

You should convert some of the ELH spells and post them up here, instead of making new ones - I think they'd give a better idea of what you want to do. Let people debate over those, and then tweak the mechanics of the system based on that.

 

[Machiavelli]

I thought 10th-level spells were along the lines of cutting a mountain off at the base, flipping it over, and suspending it in the air forever. An appropriate 11-level spell would then build a metropolis on top, complete with a population of 2 million unique, custom-made people.
I'm not sure where I got those examples from, but I remember reading them somewhere and thinking "wow". Spells of that power simply aren't supposed to exist!

But then here are these spells getting up toward 12th level, and they're pretty hum-drum. Higher-level magic should have some much more serious "flash" and "pizzazz" to it.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I thought 10th-level spells were along the lines of cutting a mountain off at the base, flipping it over, and suspending it in the air forever. An appropriate 11-level spell would then build a metropolis on top, complete with a population of 2 million unique, custom-made people.
I'm not sure where I got those examples from, but I remember reading them somewhere and thinking "wow". Spells of that power simply aren't supposed to exist!

But then here are these spells getting up toward 12th level, and they're pretty hum-drum. Higher-level magic should have some much more serious "flash" and "pizzazz" to it.

That was from the 2nd edition FR set "Arcane Age: Netheril - Empire of Magic" - as Arcanist spells - and with Karsus ascension spell as ultimate 12th level spell. Of course, spellcasting advancement for the 10th-, 11th-, and 12th level of magic was completely different from a "smooth" advancement of the current 9th-level spells (PS.: AFAIK, these spells were found in the FR Player's Guide as v3.5 Epic spells)

 

[Machiavelli]

Thanks Tirian! I doubt I'd have ever found that myself, even if I had the urge to try

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

yeah when i saw the Epic versions of some Netheril 10th level Plus spells i was like "With those Spellcraft DC's who could cast them?" Seriously while I understand WOTC Forgotten Realms reasoning for Epic spells, what about Greyhawk or Eberron. Where are their 10th level + spells? Surely they dont have the same reasoning behind no 10+ Spells.

 

[Kerrick]

[quuote]Seriously while I understand WOTC Forgotten Realms reasoning for Epic spells, what about Greyhawk or Eberron. Where are their 10th level + spells? Surely they dont have the same reasoning behind no 10+ Spells.[/quote]

Greyhawk's a low-magic setting - I doubt they ever had 10th+ level spells. As for Eberron... I think no one's bothered, since the ELH predates it by a couple years, and that system is pretty much canon as far as WotC's concerned.

And to get this thing moving again, here's my version of a greater antimagic field:


Antimagic Field, Greater
Abjuration
Level: Clr 12, Sor/Wiz 10
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Effect: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on the caster
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: See below

As antimagic field, but a greater antimagic field suppresses epic spells and artifacts without requiring a caster level check, unlike its lesser counterpart. Creatures of demigod and higher status are unaffected by a greater antimagic field.

Material Component: A handful of iron filings from an iron golem.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I thought 10th-level spells were along the lines of cutting a mountain off at the base, flipping it over, and suspending it in the air forever. An appropriate 11-level spell would then build a metropolis on top, complete with a population of 2 million unique, custom-made people.
I'm not sure where I got those examples from, but I remember reading them somewhere and thinking "wow". Spells of that power simply aren't supposed to exist!

But then here are these spells getting up toward 12th level, and they're pretty hum-drum. Higher-level magic should have some much more serious "flash" and "pizzazz" to it.

Well, I think that that's just a matter of opinion. Not to knock your view--at all. I think that what you're describing sounds like what I figured an "epic" spell would be. You know, really, really close to what the gods should be able to do.

As far as I'm concerned, there's a LOT of room between a 9th level wizard spell and what you've described as an 11th level spell. As a matter of fact, it seems like a whole magnitude of difference.

Hence my proposal...

Dave