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Spells for Everyone!

mmu1

First Post
The talk about "different power sources", especially taken in the light of the Bo9S and how Force powers and certain class features work in the SWSE makes me feel like the designers are essentially thinking about giving "spells" to all classes.

It doesn't really matter what you call it - whether it's a spell, a maneuver, a stunt, a trick, or whether the "power source" is called martial, divine or arcane - if the underlying mechanics end up being similar. (with per day, per encounter and at will abilities, most of which are clearly extraordinary)

Which isn't really a new idea - IIRC, the old Earthdawn RPG (which I only had peripheral experiences with as a Shadowrun player) had a very high-magic world in which all characters - regardless of whether they specialized in hitting people with swords or spells were at their core magic-using "adepts".

It isn't an inherently bad idea, either, it just doesn't feel a lot like D&D to me. Sure, there is currently a huge high-level gap between magic users and mundane characters, and arguably, books like Bo9s have helped redress the imbalance - but I don't think giving non-magical classes spells with the serial numbers filed off is much of a solution.

If you're going to design rules intended to get around the built-in limitations of the current class-based D&D system, why use classes at all? Go all the way, none of these half-measures that always leave me with the vague feeling that my intelligence is being insulted. As if someone out there is hoping that if enough superficial features are left intact, you will think it's still basically the same game, despite the fact you're no longer even remotely the demographic they're aiming at...
 

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Sure, there is currently a huge high-level gap between magic users and mundane characters, and arguably, books like Bo9s have helped redress the imbalance - but I don't think giving non-magical classes spells with the serial numbers filed off is much of a solution.

And what would be a better solution?
Taking away classes wouldn't make it feel like D&D either. It certainly wouldn't be D&D anymore.
 

Its all in the execution. Various non magical or mostly non magical classes already get various maneuvers abilities etc.

In fact, the only classes in the PH that don't get clearly supernatural abilities are the Rogue, Fighter and Barbarian.

As long as they don't give single class fighters abilities that are clearly mechanically or conceptually supernatural in nature, I dont have an issue with it. Fighter types having per-anything abilities can feel a little weird, but I think of it in terms of fatigue...as in, this particular technique is to exacting and tiring to do all the time.

Of course the addition of some full blown fatigue rules would probably make it even better.
 

F4NBOY said:
And what would be a better solution?
Taking away classes wouldn't make it feel like D&D either. It certainly wouldn't be D&D anymore.


Yep. Exactly. Removing classes is one of the only things I feel would make it "not D&D anymore."

Most people want the classes to be balanced in combat. Doing this, without violating the nature of the non-magical classes is a thin tightrope to walk, but can be done.
 

mmu1 said:
It isn't an inherently bad idea, either, it just doesn't feel a lot like D&D to me. Sure, there is currently a huge high-level gap between magic users and mundane characters, and arguably, books like Bo9s have helped redress the imbalance - but I don't think giving non-magical classes spells with the serial numbers filed off is much of a solution.

If you're going to design rules intended to get around the built-in limitations of the current class-based D&D system, why use classes at all? Go all the way, none of these half-measures that always leave me with the vague feeling that my intelligence is being insulted. As if someone out there is hoping that if enough superficial features are left intact, you will think it's still basically the same game, despite the fact you're no longer even remotely the demographic they're aiming at...
...Considering multiclassing already lets you do this to a degree (Ok, it might not be an OPTIMAL choice to do this, but it's still a choice) I'm not sure I see your point. Nevermind the variety of 3/3.5 feats that give otherwise non-spellcasting classes the ability to cast spells. (Nevermind gnomes)
 

As mentioned its all in the execution.

If my fighter can't do his "techniques" in an antimagic field, then it really is just magic. If its an extraordinary ability that I can do so often, then its a special combat technique, just like rage.

No one seems to have too much trouble with a barbarian who can get angry only X times per day:)
 

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