Spells on unconscious creatures

[Force0]

I know that it was a muddy point in 3.0, but in 3.5, if a creature is unconscious, is he willing (thus forgoing any saves for cures and levitate and things like it) or not (attempting to save vs said harmful effects as well as cures.)?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Spells on uncouncious creatures

I would say that an unconscious character generally is a willing target for spells that are not physically harmful.

Thus, he is a willing target for cure spells (changing that would make the game far too deadly and furthermore would mean that it is often better to have a poor will save than a good one) but remains an unwilling target for spells such as Death Knell (making unconscious characters willing targets for Death Knell would effectively remove the save since it can only be cast upon unconscious characters).

Now, there probably isn't a comprehensive logic that can reconcile these choices (willing for cures, unwilling for Death Knell, etc) in a single consistent framework but I think that they're still the right choices.

I know that it was a muddy point in 3.0, but in 3.5, if a creature is uncouncious, is he willing (thus forgoing any saves for cures and levitate and things like it) or not (attempting to save vs said harmful effects as well as cures.)?

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

The Death Knell part is a very good argument for an unconscious character getting saving throws against harmful spells. It would also make sense to have the unconscious character fail Reflex Saves.

TS

 

[Force0]

Yeah, they actually said that an unconscious creature fails any reflex save. As for Fort and Will, well, yes I concure that it would be better to make cures willing spell, and death knell not. However, what happens to levitate? It has no save, but state willing creature...

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

The simplest way of ruling it (without having to explain it logic-wise) would be that benefical spells affect the unconscious character, detrimental spells get saves against them, and for the other spells, it simply depends on the source (ie if an ally tries to levitate you, you levitate. If the bad guy tries to teleport away with your unconscious body to add you to his ever-growing collection of unconscious adventurers, you get a save).


TS

 

[ThirdWizard]

This is 3.0, and I havn't checked to see if they changed the rules for 3.5, but I doubt they have, so it probably still applies.

The default is that you don't save versus the spell and you have to conciously decide to get the saving throw if its considered harmless. I remember Sean Reynolds saying that.

"(Harmless): The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it wishes."

So there is a difference between a harmless spell (which doesn't normally require a save but the target can attempt to resist if they choose) and a spell that requires a willing target (which means active consent by the target). One requires active refusal, the other active consent.

So you can cure an unconscious buddy without trouble, but teleporting them is questionable.

--
Sean K Reynolds
http://www.seankreynolds.com

 

[Force0]

Thanks ThirdWizard that's exactly what I was looking for!