Spells

[Nail]

No.. i had a DM who gave the "new spells" to the cleric by saying his god gave him it.

This is still unclear to me.

You are saying:

"A player's cleric has a list of spell he knows, as opposed to knowing all of the spells in the PH + other supllements. This list of spells are selected for him by the DM, and this list is added to at each cleric level."

Perhaps you could spell out the method you saw in action more fully. Saying "his god gave him it" is rather muddy.....at best.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I had that kind of DM in 2e times. They'd decide what spells the wizards could learn. Sucked. Because the fun spells were all unavailable.

 

[Nail]

DM dictation of PC abilities is a tough issue.....most of the time you want to have a light touch, but maintain a certain feel in the campaign. I know you all know what I'm talking about.

For this particular issue, my advice would be: "lighten up".

Still, I'm interested in PFitz44 refining his question a bit, as I'm still unclear.

 

[Thurbane]

The main problem I find with Clerics etc. is that since they automatically have access to EVERY spell added to the relevant list, they get a free power boost with each new book that includes more of these spells.

Call me draconian, but I limit my clerics to what's in the PHB, plus a select few from other books that are particularly relevant to their god...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The main problem I find with Clerics etc. is that since they automatically have access to EVERY spell added to the relevant list, they get a free power boost with each new book that includes more of these spells.

As far as I remember, the rules aren't quite clear about this, but I think the rules as written don't give them automatic access to all extra material.

 

[PFitz44]

This is still unclear to me.

You are saying:

"A player's cleric has a list of spell he knows, as opposed to knowing all of the spells in the PH + other supllements. This list of spells are selected for him by the DM, and this list is added to at each cleric level."

Perhaps you could spell out the method you saw in action more fully. Saying "his god gave him it" is rather muddy.....at best.

My DM thought there should be a reason for you getting all of the spells. Therfore, while the caimpain was ongoing, he would periodicly give out spells that the cleric could cast, saying his god gave him the power through his prayers to cast X spell, rather then , o look i lvld up, now i can do all of these....

HTH

 

[Patlin]

I apreciate your DM wanting to add flavor to his campaign, and he's obviously changing mechanics to match flavor. It's pretty easy to come up with flavor that actually matches the mechanics, though. For example:

"Clerics benefit from study and practice just as much as mages, even though their source of power is divine. While a mage trains himself to manipulate the natural environment and alter it by manipulating the rules of nature, those inspired by the divine train themselves to be vessels of holy or unholy power. This power must still be shaped, and only the individual wielder of divine power can take that raw power and make of it something which can serve the ends of the diety. For this reason, studious and experienced practitioners of divine magic are much more usefull conduits for divine power than untried innocents, no matter how much in favor of the diety they may be."

I like this flavor better, as it makes the high level Cleric out to be potent on his own merits, and not simply the tool of his diety. In fact, based on the flavor I use high level Clerics are of great value to their dieties as a means for that diety to exert power in the world. A fallen cleric of a good diety might find himself welcomed wholeheartedly into the church of a god more in lign with his new alignment.

Whatever flavor you like, it's better to let the player be the one that makes decisions regarding his or her character.

 

[moritheil]

It's probably best if you tell the players well in advance that this is going to happen.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

That's why I like the Archivist; it makes those danged Divine Casters work for their spells. Clerics have never sat well with me in that respect, so by extension Druids as well.

Paladins and Rangers are kosher, as I've only ever had one paladin character who actually cast the spells on his list; and usually, he just cast Cure X Wounds and X Restore.

-TRRW