Spellscasters without spell slots...

[Gilwen]

I am about to start creating a world for my campaigns using alot of the rules that are floating around in the various OGL licensed books and from the Expeditious Press books. I would like your thoughts on allowing magic users to be able to cast any spell that they know without limiting them to X amount of slots per day. I would be using the recharing magic rules found in Unearthed Arcana. I may also add a skill roll to cast a spell with the idea being you get so many for free and after that your DC to cast goes up by 2 or so until you have rested for X hours (I have seen this work well in other games). I will not be using the standard spellcasting classes in the PHB. Instead I will be using a variations of the Magister class and the Witch class both of which can be found in Monte Cooks AU. The magister will be the wizard replacement and the Witch will be the Sorceror replacement. As for the rest of the spell casting classes I am unsure at this point which ones I will have in my world. Thoughts? Suggestions? Anyone doing this already?

TIA,

Gilwen

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well, on a purely personal level, I would never play in a game that uses the recharge rules. I love much of Unearthed Arcana, but I can't even comprehend using that rules set. The amount of bookkeeping it would require is staggering. Checking off spells per day is easy. Trying to remember how many minutes ago you cast shield, fly, and stoneskin, and how much longer you have to wait before your fireball comes back online... Well, for me, that would turn the entire game into an accounting exercise.

Just my take on it, of course, but there you have it.

 

[Gilwen]

Well, on a purely personal level, I would never play in a game that uses the recharge rules. I love much of Unearthed Arcana, but I can't even comprehend using that rules set. The amount of bookkeeping it would require is staggering. Checking off spells per day is easy. Trying to remember how many minutes ago you cast shield, fly, and stoneskin, and how much longer you have to wait before your fireball comes back online... Well, for me, that would turn the entire game into an accounting exercise.

Just my take on it, of course, but there you have it.

I had that reservation as well in my games. But as the DM I track the rounds and and what spells where cast in what round, so for the games I run it wasn't that much more to add and is transparent to my players for accounting purposes. Thanks for you reply.

Gilwen

 

[Dogbrain]

A system I'm playing with is that spellcasters have a skill for their spellcasting. They make a check with the DC based on the spell level. If they fail the check, they've "burnt out" that level until they get some rest.

The specific numbers have yet to be worked out. One option I'm toying with is that this "burns out" the caster for all spells for that day, meaning that the high-level spells will only be attempted when it's really needed. Alternatively, it will only "burn out" spells of that level and higher or that level and lower (haven't decided which). The trick will be to set the numbers so they neither hose the players nor are a giveaway.

Yes, there is the possibility that the Master of Magic might blow the first level spell his first day's casting and that's it for the day. That's why the numbers will need some definite tuning.

 

[RuminDange]

Another suggestion I've been kicking around in my head to try is similar to Dogbrain's so here it goes.

You still have the alloted slots per day as per normal however, when you cast a spell you must make a spellcraft check DC (the hard part to figure out is the base) + spell level. If you succeed spell goes off normally and you lose nothing. Fail and you lose a slot for the day for that level and possibity take subdual damage (kind thought of this as a way to make it possible it duplicate some of the books I've read where caster's keep casting so much so fast in defense of a place they pass out or die).

Anyway Concentation checks would still be required along with Arcane spell failure for armor as needed. Failing those also would cost you the slot.

Just random thoughts, I'm still playing with it in my head as to how it would work.

RD

 

[welby]

I use the UA spell point variant. That's been really wonderful the first few levels. You can use your big spells during the big battles, and hold back using low level spells if the day is getting long. So far, it's been very fun. Very little bookkeeping involved too.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't know the UA variant, but here's one I've used from a different system-so what follows is slightly modified and is only a bare bones suggestion of the original.

Each mage has a certain base number of spell points per level of experience. A spell of a given level costs a certain amount of spell points to cast, dependent upon level.

Casting a spell requires a Spellcraft check. A successful check means the spell goes off at the regular cost- succeeding with a natural 20 (a crit) halves the spell point cost. Failure still costs the spellcaster the spell points, but failure by rolling a one means that the spell fails AND doubles the spell point cost.

The spellcaster's spell point pool recharges after 24 hours, but requires a spellcraft check. A critical success doubles the pool (from base points) for the next day, and a critical failure halves the pool for the next day.

Certain items can be used to supply spell points, and may either be rechargeable or single use.

Places of power (Temples, Ley Lines, Intradimensional Portals, etc.) may be used to supply spell points to an attuned caster. Attunement requires a spellcheck roll, and the result is either permanenent attunement or being permanently cut off from that source. The DC depends upon how powerful the place is- the more powerful, the higher the DC. Alignment also imposes a penalty.

Certain feats would allow the spellcaster to recharge before the day is over- The Defiling Feat would allow the the spellcaster to absorb spell points from the surrounding land at the cost of destroying it, 1d4 spell points/10' land defiled. The Mana Vampire Feat would allow the spellcaster to absorb spell points from a living being while damaging it at 1d4HP/spell point.

Just a suggestion!

 

[Kabol]

We started useing refresh last week, we have a very small party ( 3 people ) and I have to say. I LOVE it, its totaly got me jazzed about playing my cleric agian, its made magic much more dynamic and fluid.

the book keeping, at first it was really bad. But I sketched out a lil guide duiring our break and started to use it, and it made it easy as all hell. as long as you use spell cards, or some kinda marker for each spell.

Im attaching the rough lil Excel mock up I made, It works pretty good. Cast your spell, roll you refresh dice. place card/marker in the right box, and shift it up when your round comes agian.

Hope this helps with your book keeping.

 

[Dogbrain]

The following seems to model okay:

To cast a spell, roll Spellcraft vs. DC of 10 plus (spell level times two). In any event, no more than Int/Wis/Cha divided by three spells of any single level can be cast per day. If the casting roll fails, the spellcaster is burnt out and can cast no further spells of that or a lower level until getting a full eight hours of rest. This may actually be too generous.

The effect is to make spellcasters less willing to open up with their biggest spells first, since they risk burning out a lot of their ability all at once.

 

[mercucio]

I don't recommend recharge. I do recommend the spell point variant found in UA combined with fatigue/exhaustion rules. If you haven't skimmed them you drop to fatigued once you go below half your spell points, and exhausted when you drop below 1/4. It makes spellcasting much more fluid, and is less bookkeeping than the recharge method.