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Spider-Man: No Way Home *spoilers*

pukunui

Legend
I have just seen the latest Spider-Man movie. Lots of interesting takeaways.

If you haven’t seen it yet and don’t want to have it spoiled, please don’t read any further.


First, let’s talk about Dr Strange. He is apparently no longer the Sorcerer Supreme. Wong is now in charge, having gotten in on a “technicality” while Stephen was dead.

However, the trailer is a bit misleading and Wong does not specifically forbid Stephen from casting the dangerous spell at Peter’s request like it appears.

Of course, Peter messes up the spell and that causes problems. Dr Strange appears to fix things by the end of the film, so the cracking open of the multiverse clearly doesn’t happen until the Multiverse of Madness movie.


You’re a wizard, Ned! I wonder if we will see him join forces with Dr Strange, Wong and co in the future. It would appear he’s forgotten all about his powers by the end of the movie but I’m sure he’ll end up remembering / rediscovering them at some point.


The audience screamed (with delight) when first Andrew and then Tobey appeared.


It would appear that Venom is now officially part of the MCU.


Yelena is going to be disappointed that the shield got knocked off the “new and improved” Statue of Liberty. (Looks nice without the green patina.)


Anyone got any other thoughts?
 

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pukunui

Legend
Yes, that was Charlie Cox from the DD show on Netflix, the audience I was with cheered at that part, along with both Toby and Andrew's appearances.
OK. I don't think he got a particularly noticeable reaction from my audience. Certainly not the screams of delight that Andrew and Tobey got.
 


Stalker0

Legend
Saw the movie last night, my thoughts:

Of the 3 Holland movies I think this one was both the most fun of the three, and the weakest movie of the three.

This movie feels the least organic, the beginning feels rushed and "forced", racing spiderman past the serious "if he going to jail" type stuff so we can get to the fun stuff.

The movie starts to slow down in the 2nd and especially 3rd acts, gives itself time to breathe, and that's when we get the best quality and fun in the movie. Obviously to the surprise of no one, Tobey and Andrew show up....and they do a great job. I appreciated how each spiderman came off as different, Tobey was the older more seasoned spiderman, Andrew's is the most emotional distraught (having lost Gwen) and has confidence issues, Holland is actually the most driven of the three at this point, having just lost his Aunt, and so his feelings of revenge and anger are strong. There is wonderful banter, I love that as soon as they find out Tobey's spiderman doesn't make web fluid that is all they can talk about!

The villains also did a good job. Lizard and Sandman were more background characters, which was fine....in such a movie they could easily cram too much in (and as I said the beginning felt rushed to let them get as much stuff as they did) so it allowed them to focus on Doc Ock, Electro, and Green Goblin.

I liked this Electro a lot better. He wasn't over the top crazy, just power hungry. Doc Ock was awesome, and I appreciated that they pulled no morality punches with him. As soon as they corrected the chip, Doc Ock was a good guy again, no wavering, no holds bar. The man was not a villain he was a travesty, and they did well to show that. And Dafoe slays once again as the Goblin, just awesome.

All in all it was a fun ride, and very enjoyable. Again in terms of pure "how is it as a movie" I think its the weakest of the three, but I think the other movies set high bars, and it blows the pants off of the original Spiderman 3.

Here are a few list of high and low points

High
  • Holland once again slays the emotional scenes. The scene when he basically collapses while his friend's hold him (in grief over his aunt) is really well done.

  • Garfield's spiderman saves MJ, and in some ways gets redemption for the loss of Gwen. That scene is probably the brightest star in the movie, when MJ asks Garfield is he is okay, and he is just crying out of pure joy.... the entire audience lost it on that scene.

  • The scene when Octavius and Tobey get to greet each other as old friends. And when Oct asks Tobey what he has been doing, his simple callback answer "trying to do better", was great.

  • I love that Wong is the sorceror supreme now, that was both out of left field and yet very appropriate. I also appreciate the reasonable explanation thrown out there (Strange was bliped for 5 years, so Wong got the role). It gives different people different "outs". For purists who think it has to be Strange, they can just say this was a technicality. For people who think Wong (who is far more experienced than Strange) has earned the role, they can just believe he earned it on merit.

  • The fact that this movie balanced 3 spiderman and 5 villains and actually made it work has to get some applause. I was VERY WORRIED about this, for I think that is part of what ruined the original Spiderman 3.... too many characters to focus on. But this one did it very well.

  • The fact that the spidersense is so implicit to Spiderman's body that it operates when his spirit has left was a very cool touch, I like that a lot.

  • The Matt Murdock cameo was perfect!
Lows
  • I think my biggest issue in the movie was Aunt May. The Marissa Tomei May has been mostly a background character up till now, present but never really driving things. The fact that she was the "plot driver" of this whole movie felt weird to me, and a bit forced. Suddenly she is the super moral compass for spiderman? Her death was a poignant scene, but in a movie that was probably the most comedic of the three, it also threatened to be undercut by the lighthearted tone of much of the rest of the movie.

  • Once again, we have to ask.... where are the Avengers? Frankly....where are all the spiderman supporters? This was one of my big problems with the beginning. We are pounded with people disparaging spiderman....but the guy freaking helped save the world. Where were the people who he had saved coming out and saying "spiderman is a hero!" and booing Jameson. Where was our new Captain America saying "Peter Parker is an american hero"..... there was none of that in this movie. Now I respect that getting actors for cameos is expensive and hard to schedule, but honestly I didn't even need to see them. For example, Peter gets a letter saying something to the effect of "we got your back", with signatures from a whole bunch of Avengers. For when Matt Murdock comes in, we get a quick note "oh please Ms May your expenses have been fully covered by Stark Industries, no need to worry". Again something that lets us know that Peter is not suddenly thrown into the cold by all of his super family the second things go bad for him.

  • When Peter decides not to tell MJ and Ned about who he is, I think people took it as heroic, but I did not. He already tried to manipulate the world in having them forget him. And now he is taking away the choice of his friends. I get the whole "I don't want them in danger"....but its their choice to make. Peter even talked about that one of the major differences between him and the other two spiderman, is he had learned to work as a team...but now leaves that team behind. I think on a more "meta" level, probably the reason for that is it leaves the door open based on how the Sony/Marvel negotiations go in the future. If they get the actors back on board and Sony in tow....than we may finally get that "remember me" scene and move on. If they don't, it gives them a clean slate to move on if they need to.

  • While Doctor Strange is an impulsive character, I think they pushed that a bit too far in this movie for plot reasons. Strange even gets on Peter "wait you didn't even try some other options before coming to me"....but damn Strange is the one starting a world changing spell without even sitting down with Peter, telling him what it was going to do, and then making sure that's what he wanted. Literally he is about to massively change the world, and he acts like its just a 5 minute appointment, quick and clean off to the next. In that context, thank god Wong is the sorcerer supreme, Strange is way too impulsive and irresponsible to be wielding that authority.

  • I was so sure that at some point when they talked about "the tingle", that one of the other Spiderman would finally say "you mean the Spidersense?"....and we would finally have that. They are STILL calling it the tingle....come on!
 

pukunui

Legend
  • When Peter decides not to tell MJ and Ned about who he is, I think people took it as heroic, but I did not. He already tried to manipulate the world in having them forget him. And now he is taking away the choice of his friends. I get the whole "I don't want them in danger"....but its their choice to make. Peter even talked about that one of the major differences between him and the other two spiderman, is he had learned to work as a team...but now leaves that team behind. I think on a more "meta" level, probably the reason for that is it leaves the door open based on how the Sony/Marvel negotiations go in the future. If they get the actors back on board and Sony in tow....than we may finally get that "remember me" scene and move on. If they don't, it gives them a clean slate to move on if they need to.
I think it wasn't so much that he was taking away the choice of his friends. It was the sacrifice he had to make to ensure that the multiverse didn't completely break apart. Dr Strange wasn't willing to cast the spell with a whole bunch of exceptions again - so it was a case of "all or nothing".

I agree that Dr Strange was a bit too reckless at the start, though.
 

The Lizard Wizard

Adventurer
I went yesterday on my first day of holidays. As I was about to buy a ticket someone came up and gave me a free one. This has happened maybe 4 or 5 times during my life, but this was by far the sweetest. Anyway, this maybe has influenced my feelings, but I loved the movie. I also enjoy meta and multiverse stuff, so this was up there with my favourite super hero films.

There was a lot of cheering from my cinema, not just when Toby and Andrew showed up, but at classic Villain lines, etc…

Strange v Spiderman in the mirror universe and the bridge fight at the start we’re just a couple of the highlights for me.
 




So, this movie could also serve as the 3rd movie for Andrew's Spider-Man.

Fun fact: Dafoe insisted on being able to do as many of his own stunts as possible despite being in his sixties. Again we get the spider-man pointing at spider-man meme!

Also, Goblin REALLY hates Peter's back.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I think it wasn't so much that he was taking away the choice of his friends. It was the sacrifice he had to make to ensure that the multiverse didn't completely break apart. Dr Strange wasn't willing to cast the spell with a whole bunch of exceptions again - so it was a case of "all or nothing".
For clarity, I was good with Spiderman asking Strange to cast the spell again, that was very appropriate and heroic.

My critique was later on, when he going to tell his friends who he is....but ultimately doesn't. That is the part that didn't work for me.
 

Bolares

Hero
For clarity, I was good with Spiderman asking Strange to cast the spell again, that was very appropriate and heroic.

My critique was later on, when he going to tell his friends who he is....but ultimately doesn't. That is the part that didn't work for me.
I don’t know. That’s a typical peter parker reaction. Take responsibility for everything and decide without consulting others that they are better off without him
 

pukunui

Legend
For clarity, I was good with Spiderman asking Strange to cast the spell again, that was very appropriate and heroic.

My critique was later on, when he going to tell his friends who he is....but ultimately doesn't. That is the part that didn't work for me.
Ah I see. I took that as being “they seem happy and they’re going to MIT. I don’t want to risk jeopardizing their happiness again.”

Still, I expect we’ll see a reunion / remembrance at some point in the future.
 


GreyLord

Legend
  • When Peter decides not to tell MJ and Ned about who he is, I think people took it as heroic, but I did not. He already tried to manipulate the world in having them forget him. And now he is taking away the choice of his friends. I get the whole "I don't want them in danger"....but its their choice to make. Peter even talked about that one of the major differences between him and the other two spiderman, is he had learned to work as a team...but now leaves that team behind. I think on a more "meta" level, probably the reason for that is it leaves the door open based on how the Sony/Marvel negotiations go in the future. If they get the actors back on board and Sony in tow....than we may finally get that "remember me" scene and move on. If they don't, it gives them a clean slate to move on if they need to.

  • While Doctor Strange is an impulsive character, I think they pushed that a bit too far in this movie for plot reasons. Strange even gets on Peter "wait you didn't even try some other options before coming to me"....but damn Strange is the one starting a world changing spell without even sitting down with Peter, telling him what it was going to do, and then making sure that's what he wanted. Literally he is about to massively change the world, and he acts like its just a 5 minute appointment, quick and clean off to the next. In that context, thank god Wong is the sorcerer supreme, Strange is way too impulsive and irresponsible to be wielding that authority.

  • I was so sure that at some point when they talked about "the tingle", that one of the other Spiderman would finally say "you mean the Spidersense?"....and we would finally have that. They are STILL calling it the tingle....come on!

1. I HATED the ending because of this. He breaks his promise to MJ of all things! The fact that he just leaves...just rubs me the wrong way. If we are going to do that...then how...when everyone has forgotten him (and apparantly it erases pictures they have, yearbook stuff, journals, everything that Ned and MJ would have had to make them start wondering who this kid Peter Parker is and why they forgot him) does he even get ID? How does he get a job (those are some pretty swanky clothes he has on at the end for someone who can't even get a decent job) or an apartment in NYC (unless you are living in a place far worse than what we see at the end, he's not going be able to get it without some ID and such)?

There would be a LOT of stuff that reminds people that he is Peter Parker out there, even if it was erased from their minds initially. However, even worse, if it DID delete all that stuff, he shouldn't be in the system anymore as a US citizen or have anything able to identify him from Social Security to State ID.

Enjoyed the movie, hated the ending.

2. I wonder with Doctor Strange if this is hinting at the next movie. Perhaps this Doctor Strange is a DIFFERENT Doctor Strange than we had initially, and this one is actually reckless. If you remember the ending "trailer" there are going to be TWO Doctor Strange's, with one being the cause of all the trouble in the next movie...or so it appears.

3. They really made Jamison to be the TRUE villain of the movie. That's also what was really missing. With Peter being as smart as he was, he should realize that the Goblin was just acting on it's nature, though it was evil and the direct cause. The indirect cause of the trouble and basically all the horrible stuff that occurred was Jamison. He never got his situation where he found justice (either by coming around and actually admitting Spiderman may have done good, or admitting he (Jamison) actually did some pretty big evil stuff, OR...finally it being found out that he is really a villain and because of his actions has caused a LOT of bad things to occur (perhaps that is too like some news agencies in the real world presently, but if they are going to include this type of idea in the film replicating what some news are doing in the real world, at least indulge in the fantasy that in the film world justice can actually happen).
 

Staffan

Legend
Just came back from seeing the movie, and I really did like it a lot. Thinking back on it, there was one element I wasn't super-fond of: The Daily Bugle being Infowars, in that it's more about editorializing and pushing a narrative (oh, and supplements!) than actual news. Classic JJJ has, with the exception of his gigantic hate-on for Spider-Man, always been a really good publicist. There have been several occasions where he has taken personal hits because of his journalistic integrity.

We did get him calling for compromising footage of Spider-Man though, so that's something.

On the plus side, it seems the movie is fixing one of my main complaints about MCU Spider-Man: the "heir of Tony Stark" thing. At the end, we have Spider-Man back in a suit he seems to have sewed himself (we see a sewing machine in the apartment), living in a crappy apartment where it's clear he won't necessarily be able to pay rent. That's the Spider-Man I recognize, not the one whose suit has nanotech and stuff.
 

pukunui

Legend
What I want to know is: how did Aunt May wash the green goop off his suit? He couldn’t get it off with soap or whatever else he tried. What did she use to get it clean?

(It was funny how he had to wear it inside out for a bit.)
 


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