Spiked Chain: The Ultimate Defenders Wep or Sir Not Appearing in the Edition?

[MaelStorm]

I hope the spiked chain gets ambushed in an alley and dies a violent death before it ever makes it to 4th edition.

I don't so much care about the mechanics of it. . . its just the idea of the spiked chain sickens me. Fighters are supposed to use swords, hammers, and axes to crush and cleave their foes. . . not lash at them with overblown barbed wire. Well. . . maybe an elf might do something like that. . . but not a real fighter.

Well said.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Personally, I'm hoping for Dwarven Urgroshes without that silly self-emasculation device on the bottom...

You're holding it wrong.

Actually, I hope they get rid of all the silly weapons. Whoever heard of the legendary hero proving his Right to Rule by pulling a Spiked Chain out of a stone?

The only thing I find silly about the Spiked Chain is that they used a Hill Giant version for the PHB picture.

1 round of stunning (especially the dropped weapons) to every bad will save NPC I get inside a 30' cone (DC 18) doesn't half suck.

It's 15' in 3.5e.

Apparently, between that change and Sleep, they wanted to ensure no 1st level Wizard could do anything to multiple creatures without exposing themselves to mortal danger.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Speaking as someone somewhat proficient in the kusari-fundo (weighted chain) the spiked chain is fine, as long as it doesn't look a thing like the picture. It's the RULES that are messed up for it. It should be an interesting option for a light-fighter, just not more powerful than everything else.

The finess, reach, trip, etc stuff is exactly how it would be used, and it STILL wouldn't be BETTER than using a sword or a polearm, just different, and frankly, it would take a whole lot more discipline to learn. After years of practice you could get pretty deadly with it.

Oh and anyone who can't "choke up" on a polearm doesn't know how to USE a polearm.

On the subject: I'm sure the spiked chain will be in 4e and I expect it will be better balanced.

Fitz

 

[Doug McCrae]

I don't think the spiked chain is too good. The feat requirement balances it with other reach weapons. Improved trip is somewhat overpowered but otoh wizards, clerics and druids are very overpowered, so what can you do?

A conventional reach weapon plus armor spikes gives you the same threatened area as the chain incidentally, without the need to spend a feat. A guisarme would give you trip. You lose finesse and +2 disarm, but gain a better crit range and a feat, which looks like a net win to me.

The real problem is that it turns up far too often for what should be a cool, flavorful but rare weapon. Once per campaign is about right. PCs wield them much too often imx. The same is true of armor spikes, though, once players find out.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I don't think the spiked chain is too good. The feat requirement balances it with other reach weapons. Improved trip is somewhat overpowered but otoh wizards, clerics and druids are very overpowered, so what can you do?

A conventional reach weapon plus armor spikes gives you the same threatened area as the chain incidentally, without the need to spend a feat. A guisarme would give you trip. You lose finesse and +2 disarm, but gain a better crit range and a feat, which looks like a net win to me.

The real problem is that it turns up far too often for what should be a cool, flavorful but rare weapon. Once per campaign is about right. PCs wield them much too often imx. The same is true of armor spikes, though, once players find out.

Yes this is the way I see it, to a certain extent. The problem is the lack of balance between classes. It is the only way for this (non Bo9S) non spellcaster to shine in combat.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

Historically there were a number of japanese chain weapons (manriki-gusari, kusari-gama etc). I'm guessing that they took more specific training to use well, but did have their uses.

Cheers

Their main use, according to "Secrets of the Samurai," by Adele Westbrook (sp.), was that they aren't explicitly a weapon, so they could be carried without violating the lethally enforced Tokugawa shogunate's "gun control" laws. The fact that they basically appeared then, and almost exclusively in the hands of non-nobles who were now forbidden to carry swords, daggers, or spears, would seem to indicate that they're an inferior choice to more 'traditional' melee weapons, but better than nothing in a dangerous world.


Also in that book is an account of a famous chain-wielder being lured into a bamboo grove by a swordsman -- who easily killed him when his first swing tangled his chain hopelessly with the bamboo.

 

[Lackhand]

Because nothing that ever grew out of a farm implement could ever be a kickass weapon

Just saying, is all.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

Because nothing that ever grew out of a farm implement could ever be a kickass weapon

Just saying, is all.

Oh, it's an okay weapon, and if you're good with it, then it can be just as lethal as a lot of other stuff -- against unarmored targets, mind you. The other peculiarity of a chain weapon is that it can do a heck of a lot of damage to flesh, but armor is going to pretty much nullify that, like a whip -- although it's still okay for tangling.

Still, there were never large-scale military uses of it -- where bow, spear, and sword (and eventually, naginata and arquebus), were the undisputed masters. So one must presume that these weapons exceed it in effectiveness in many combat situations.

 

[frankthedm]

Well, with today's announcement, I bet the chain will find itself no longer the aoo machine it once was.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Well, with today's announcement, I bet the chain will find itself no longer the aoo machine it once was.

Yep AO don't work with reach, not fully- only during the 'reach'ers turn. I think