ThirdWizard
First Post
I like the spiked chain. It's a fun weapon. I don't really care about whether or not it's realistic, though.
Spiked Chains: Pure cheese or sometimes OK?
- Thread starter Whizbang Dustyboots
- Start date
I have no problem with my players using a chain for a weapon, even though it is probably the dumbest, least effective weapon to use in real life against anything even remotely armored; more of a hazard to the wielder than anything else.
However, the residents of my game world do in fact have a problem with it. You see, the chain is the weapon and (un)holy symbol of The Dominator, an uber-evil Major god. The Dominator saw all sentient life as property, cattle, and food, and his reign of Terror lasted a millenia, and is still blasted into the racial memory of the entire world. Finally all of the other Gods, Good and Evil alike, banded together but were unable to kill him. They were able to bind him however, so they wrapped him with chains and buried him under a mountain.
His reviled and secretive cultists are still active, though, and are actively trying to bring him back. Under the mountain, the Dominator stirs.
So in other words, I tell my players, feel free to use a chain for a weapon. Go ahead. Have fun.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
However, the residents of my game world do in fact have a problem with it. You see, the chain is the weapon and (un)holy symbol of The Dominator, an uber-evil Major god. The Dominator saw all sentient life as property, cattle, and food, and his reign of Terror lasted a millenia, and is still blasted into the racial memory of the entire world. Finally all of the other Gods, Good and Evil alike, banded together but were unable to kill him. They were able to bind him however, so they wrapped him with chains and buried him under a mountain.
His reviled and secretive cultists are still active, though, and are actively trying to bring him back. Under the mountain, the Dominator stirs.
So in other words, I tell my players, feel free to use a chain for a weapon. Go ahead. Have fun.
FireLance
Legend
The spiked chain, if you will pardon the pun, is a very flexible weapon. It gets a bonus on disarm checks and can be used to trip, so it's a good weapon to use in a combat where you want to feature these special maneuvres instead of vanilla attacks. As a two-handed weapon, it gets 2-for-1 Power Attack, so it has good damage potential against low-AC opponents. In all the above aspects, it is no different from the heavy flail.
In addition, it is a reach weapon, which makes it an attractive option for high-Dexterity characters with Combat Reflexes and Spring Attack. The fact that it is also finessable (the only finessable reach weapon in the PH) is a further point in its favor.
Its other unique characteristic, the fact that it is a reach weapon that also threatens adjacent opponents, seems to bother a lot of people, although I personally haven't found it to be a particularly potent ability. It does work well with Whirlwind Attack, though.
The real disadvantage to the spiked chain is that to use it at its full effectiveness, you need a character with decent Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence with Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm and Whirlwind Attack, even before optional add-ons like Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus and Improved Critical. Not every character can manage that. Frankly, if you only have the ability scores and feats to pursue one or two of the paths (Improved Disarm/Improved Trip, reach + Spring Attack, Power Attack) you can probably find a weapon that works just as well and doesn't require you to spend a feat.
Of course, if you think that flexibility is the most powerful thing in the game, you would probably ban the spiked chain along with the mystic theurge.
Concerns about historical accuracy are also valid, but seem more suited to a game of d20 Past than d20 Fantasy.
If you just don't like the weapon, you are welcome to your opinion, but please don't confuse taste with quality.
I happen to like it and I think it's fine. In the campaign I'm running, the PCs encounter spiked chains fairly often because their main opponents are the shadar-kai (shadow fey), whose signature weapon is the spiked chain. The flexibility works for me because I can use the same weapon and still have it reasonably effective in the hands of Power Attacking brutes, intelligent trippers and disarmers, as well as dexterous Spring Attacking skirmishers, and the occasional all-round weapon master who is proficient every way that it can be used.
In addition, it is a reach weapon, which makes it an attractive option for high-Dexterity characters with Combat Reflexes and Spring Attack. The fact that it is also finessable (the only finessable reach weapon in the PH) is a further point in its favor.
Its other unique characteristic, the fact that it is a reach weapon that also threatens adjacent opponents, seems to bother a lot of people, although I personally haven't found it to be a particularly potent ability. It does work well with Whirlwind Attack, though.
The real disadvantage to the spiked chain is that to use it at its full effectiveness, you need a character with decent Strength, Dexterity and Intelligence with Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm and Whirlwind Attack, even before optional add-ons like Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus and Improved Critical. Not every character can manage that. Frankly, if you only have the ability scores and feats to pursue one or two of the paths (Improved Disarm/Improved Trip, reach + Spring Attack, Power Attack) you can probably find a weapon that works just as well and doesn't require you to spend a feat.
Of course, if you think that flexibility is the most powerful thing in the game, you would probably ban the spiked chain along with the mystic theurge.
Concerns about historical accuracy are also valid, but seem more suited to a game of d20 Past than d20 Fantasy.
If you just don't like the weapon, you are welcome to your opinion, but please don't confuse taste with quality.
I happen to like it and I think it's fine. In the campaign I'm running, the PCs encounter spiked chains fairly often because their main opponents are the shadar-kai (shadow fey), whose signature weapon is the spiked chain. The flexibility works for me because I can use the same weapon and still have it reasonably effective in the hands of Power Attacking brutes, intelligent trippers and disarmers, as well as dexterous Spring Attacking skirmishers, and the occasional all-round weapon master who is proficient every way that it can be used.
Nifft said:
Well, it's not. There is another weapon presented in the DMG that's essentially lower-damage spiked chain that can be wielded as a double-weapon.
It's not so much the spiked chain that's annoying as it is the rules for tripping, and most of all how huge a hosejob the prone condition is. If you stand up, you provoke. If you crawl out of your square, you provoke. If you stay prone, you take some pretty heavy penalties. If there were ways for feats and/or skills to mitigate the effects of being prone, then it wouldn't be so bad. But last I checked, the most generous thing they've offered so far is to allow a DC 35 check to allow standing up as a free action--and I don't even think that prevents the attack of opportunity.
It is ridiculously good compared to other exotic weapons--and seriously, how the hell is it supposed to work, never mind hit two opponents and trip two others with the classic Improved Trip / Combat Reflexes build? Someone in WotC apparently fell in love with the weapon, which is why we get elves, devils, half-orcs, celestials and minotaurs using the thing in illustrations and NPC's, when hardly any other exotic weapon gets a look in.
Mind you, I'd prefer other exotic weapons to get an upgrade over the spiked chain getting nerfed.
Mind you, I'd prefer other exotic weapons to get an upgrade over the spiked chain getting nerfed.
pawsplay
Hero
It's hard to be too down on a weapon that could fly out of your hands on a bad roll, and whose major abilities are useless against creatures with reach and high Str bonuses. For instance, good luck tripping an Ogre, and he doesn't care about getting inside your reach. Against humanoid opponents, it's fairly mean.
Basically, you're talking about a modest damage weapon that requires a very high ability score to use, and grants you reach but with the ability to attack adjacent opponents. It's nothing really special. Weapon finesse is a non-issue, since you need a good Str for tripping.
Spiked chain users are, of necessity, non-shield users, unless they want to use a buckler or an animated shield.
Now, admittedly, once you have enough feats to get some use out of it, it can be a terror. Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Close Quarters Fighting, etc. But those same feats could give a greatsword wielder Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Buckler Defense, etc., and his damage output is going to be huge with a better AC.
There are a number of things you can do with spikey, but typically, you can only do about two of them. The basic strategies seem to be Weapon Finesse reach weapon, "I have lots of AoOs," master of tripping, and prestige class dipper.
Basically, you're talking about a modest damage weapon that requires a very high ability score to use, and grants you reach but with the ability to attack adjacent opponents. It's nothing really special. Weapon finesse is a non-issue, since you need a good Str for tripping.
Spiked chain users are, of necessity, non-shield users, unless they want to use a buckler or an animated shield.
Now, admittedly, once you have enough feats to get some use out of it, it can be a terror. Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Close Quarters Fighting, etc. But those same feats could give a greatsword wielder Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Buckler Defense, etc., and his damage output is going to be huge with a better AC.
There are a number of things you can do with spikey, but typically, you can only do about two of them. The basic strategies seem to be Weapon Finesse reach weapon, "I have lots of AoOs," master of tripping, and prestige class dipper.
the Jester
Legend
Naw, it isn't too bad. I've used 'em with npcs (as a dm) and one of my players built an orcish fighter/wizard who focused on it. Good build but not overwhelming, even with a bunch of custom feats and such.
Is it a realistic weapon? Snort! no, but is it a fun weapon in-game? Yes.
Is it a realistic weapon? Snort! no, but is it a fun weapon in-game? Yes.
Klaus
First Post
If you can bypass the silly illustration for it in the PHB, it's a neat weapon. I envision it as a regular length of chain (like the maniki-gusari mentioned above), but with thorns on the links closer to the ends. The wielder is advised to wear thick leather gauntlets when whirling a spiked chain bout.
As for a bounty hunter, it's actually a pretty neat weapon, since you can also carry a couple of spare chains and padlocks and tie your quarry in chain bindings.
As for a bounty hunter, it's actually a pretty neat weapon, since you can also carry a couple of spare chains and padlocks and tie your quarry in chain bindings.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Oh, I like that! It'll be fun leaving members of the party trussed up and helpless, trying to escape while he goes after the others.Klaus said:
Wik
First Post
Yeah, the spiked chain sucks. We did have a player use one, and we found that he outperformed similar characters in the group. This player now uses a spiked chain whenever he gets the chance. Everytime he's making a martial character, it's "spiked chain" this, and "10 foot reach" that.
"I'm going to make a gnomish hexblade. And he's going to use a spiked chain!"
"I'm going to make a halfling ranger. And he's going to use a spiked chain!"
"I'm going to make a kyton.... and he's going to BE a spiked chain!".
I. Hate. Those. Damned. Spiked. Chains.
"I'm going to make a gnomish hexblade. And he's going to use a spiked chain!"
"I'm going to make a halfling ranger. And he's going to use a spiked chain!"
"I'm going to make a kyton.... and he's going to BE a spiked chain!".
I. Hate. Those. Damned. Spiked. Chains.
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