[spin-off] 3E is NOT "dumbed down."

[Ziggy]

I wonder-if I designed an RPG that used tensor calculus, could I get anyone to play?

Only if you used modal logic

.Ziggy

 

[Great Umbrage]

Nothing beats the tables in Rolemaster! Whoo-hoo!

And while we're at it, why don't we just call D&D a dumbed down version of life? I mean, c'mon, FOUR elements? My periodic table lists at least 109...where the hell is Meitnerium?

 

[Sulimo]

The main reason that I used to think 3e was dumbed down has to do with vocabulary.

Now it's all "gloves" and "belts" instead of gauntlets and girdles, f'rex.

Yeah. I still feel that way. Then again its no surprise given literacy levels have gone all to hell generally.

 

[Sulimo]

Nothing beats the tables in Rolemaster! Whoo-hoo!

And while we're at it, why don't we just call D&D a dumbed down version of life? I mean, c'mon, FOUR elements? My periodic table lists at least 109...where the hell is Meitnerium?

Hmm...fighting a plutonium elemental...

 

[Wormwood]

The main reason that I used to think 3e was dumbed down has to do with vocabulary.

Now it's all "gloves" and "belts" instead of gauntlets and girdles, f'rex.

You forgot "staffs".

3e isn't dumbed down from 1e. It's still an Honors course, except now it's Math instead of English.

edit: Turns out I need Remedial English.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well, I think you can remedee this yourself. Only buy the 3 core books and use those. Then, if you want to use anything else, go for it. Like Song and Silence but hated Sword and Fist? Don't use Sword and Fist. Thats why all these other books are called supplements. The supplement the rules. Use them if you wish, but no one, not even WotC, is forcing the players to use these supplements.

I'm not sure what the suppliments have to do with my problems with the game? We only use the core books for the most part anyway. I'm talking about the feats that have various mods plus the positioning mods like flanks. My problems are from the DM's point of view, playing one PC would be no problem at all.

 

[Christian Walker]

3E dumbed down? No way. I think many 3E players would excel at Advanced Squad Leader, given that many battles degrade into prolonged, hex hopping, rule book flipping, wargame debates.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Wow! Let's not ever sit at the same gaming table. I love how 3E flows.

One mechanic. If the players are ever in doubt, I give them a DC and a skill/stat/whatever and they're happy and we move on.

3E is the easiest system I've ever run, and I've GMed quite a few.

Ok if you like that level of management more power to you. When you have a fight with the party of 8th level PC's battling five or six other mid level NPCS with all kinds of expertise, defensive fighting, flanking, power attacking, etc. I have three or four changing mods for each character to keep track of. Bow attacks can get complicated to figure as range and targets change. The combat system has a lot to keep track of. More than I like.

 

[Garmorn]

Ok if you like that level of management more power to you. When you have a fight with the party of 8th level PC's battling five or six other mid level NPCS with all kinds of expertise, defensive fighting, flanking, power attacking, etc. I have three or four changing mods for each character to keep track of. Bow attacks can get complicated to figure as range and targets change. The combat system has a lot to keep track of. More than I like.

I understand what you are after. While I happen to enjoy combats like you just described as a GM; I know that for lots of people they can be overhelming. Some one should either put out a easly to use system that simplifies things for those who do not like these comlicated combats. We have one DM who will not run nonmonster type encouters because she can't track all of the things multipule NPC would be doing no matter how hard she tries.

 

[Cullain]

Not playing with battlemap... ? And this works?

I don't mean to sound demeaning; this is actually an honest question. The rules seem so tied into battlemaps, I never even considered not using them.

regards
Toft

We started out using them, but it was just too much of a pain, so we stopped bothering. Without battlemaps, we might miss a few AoO based on movement, but that's about it. And it's a trade I'm happy with.

We will still sometime's whip out the miniatures, so people have a good idea of where everyone is, but maybe once every 2~3 sessions.

Some people really like the battlemap. But if you don't, i'd suggest just not using it for one session, see how it turns out. You might like the difference. OTOH, if you don't use battlemaps, the reverse might be true.

Cullain