(Spoilers) Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
- Thread starter thatdarncat
- Start date
Samnell
Explorer
Bob Aberton said:
In retrospect, I think it was well-foreshadowed. Sirius was acting a bit off all book, more like Prisoner Sirius than Goblet Sirius. I'm glad Harry got over constantly raging at Ron and Hermione, though. For a while I thought after having Ron and Hermione alienated from the other two in the trio in successive books we'd see Harry alienated from both of them and totally on his own.
Best part for me, though: Dumbledore's conversation with Harry at the end where he tells all and we get the Albus-eye-view of the series.
Also, was MacGonagall on fire this book or what? She's always so controlled and we seldom get to see her really human side. Seeing angry, nasty, righteous Minerva tear into Umbridge was just precious. She was only referring to Harry's marks with the competent Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers.
stevelabny
Explorer
i apparently read slower than the average geek, but i'm done.
THE TITLE OF THE POST SAYS SPOILERS SO I'M GETTING RIGHT INTO IT.
the first two chapters were great, first with dementors and then Petunia's lapse into commenting on the Wizarding World...
the next 600 pages or so had some of the fun little things of the other harry potter books and the occasional extra character bit, but there was no sense of danger or urgency.
CoS had people being petrified. PoA had mysteries of Lupin and Sirius, both of were in Hogwart's while someone was up to no good. GoF had the TriWizard Tourney going on which brought with it the drama and tension of each challenge. OotP has Harry having nightmares and nobody telling him anything. I'm not exactly frightened. I figured with Voldy having a body, the danger factor would be turned up a notch, instead...BAD DREAMS. wtf?
The only really cool thing in this book was Gred and Forge's grand exit. Neville's spotlight looked promising, but he never took the fight to the woman who messed up his parents. I was sure Cho HAD to be up to something, but instead she was apparently just acting like a stupid teenage girl. And the much hyped death happens in such a way that all of us who have trained at the school of "if there isn't a body, there isn't a death" didnt feel an instant emotional impact because why would i even think he's really dead???
The things that are really bothering me though are all the clips into the past. If that was really one of Snape's worst memories... I'm gonna lose all respect for the guy. I'm not incredibly surprised that James and Sirius were punks, but the way Lily was portrayed I just don't buy her changing her mind 2 years later.
And worst of all...the prophecy. First, it even repeats itself. Why does it say TWICE that the one with the power to vanquish the dark lord will be born as the secenth month dies. Is this a clue I'm not understanding?
Most importantly...Voldy knows theres a prophecy, but he doesn't know all of it...this is why he attempts to kill Harry thus "marking" him and making Harry the subject of the prophecy rather than Neville. Fine. Now Voldy if figuring that he can get the prophecy and find out how to kill Harry.
1> WHY is Voldy assuming that the prophecy will tell him how he can kill Harry? Seems like a big gamble to me. What am I missing?
The Order doesn't want Voldy to get this "weapon" so they spend so much time guarding it. Podmore is arrested, Arthur almost killed. But
2> WHY are they bothering? the prophecy DOESN'T tell Voldy how to kill Harry. I dont see Voldy getting ANY benefit from hearing the prophecy. WHAT AM I MISSING?
these two questions are eating at my brain right now. I havent read anything on any other board or mailing list or talked in person with anyone, and it is 7am, so maybe i'm missing something. please help.
THE TITLE OF THE POST SAYS SPOILERS SO I'M GETTING RIGHT INTO IT.
the first two chapters were great, first with dementors and then Petunia's lapse into commenting on the Wizarding World...
the next 600 pages or so had some of the fun little things of the other harry potter books and the occasional extra character bit, but there was no sense of danger or urgency.
CoS had people being petrified. PoA had mysteries of Lupin and Sirius, both of were in Hogwart's while someone was up to no good. GoF had the TriWizard Tourney going on which brought with it the drama and tension of each challenge. OotP has Harry having nightmares and nobody telling him anything. I'm not exactly frightened. I figured with Voldy having a body, the danger factor would be turned up a notch, instead...BAD DREAMS. wtf?
The only really cool thing in this book was Gred and Forge's grand exit. Neville's spotlight looked promising, but he never took the fight to the woman who messed up his parents. I was sure Cho HAD to be up to something, but instead she was apparently just acting like a stupid teenage girl. And the much hyped death happens in such a way that all of us who have trained at the school of "if there isn't a body, there isn't a death" didnt feel an instant emotional impact because why would i even think he's really dead???
The things that are really bothering me though are all the clips into the past. If that was really one of Snape's worst memories... I'm gonna lose all respect for the guy. I'm not incredibly surprised that James and Sirius were punks, but the way Lily was portrayed I just don't buy her changing her mind 2 years later.
And worst of all...the prophecy. First, it even repeats itself. Why does it say TWICE that the one with the power to vanquish the dark lord will be born as the secenth month dies. Is this a clue I'm not understanding?
Most importantly...Voldy knows theres a prophecy, but he doesn't know all of it...this is why he attempts to kill Harry thus "marking" him and making Harry the subject of the prophecy rather than Neville. Fine. Now Voldy if figuring that he can get the prophecy and find out how to kill Harry.
1> WHY is Voldy assuming that the prophecy will tell him how he can kill Harry? Seems like a big gamble to me. What am I missing?
The Order doesn't want Voldy to get this "weapon" so they spend so much time guarding it. Podmore is arrested, Arthur almost killed. But
2> WHY are they bothering? the prophecy DOESN'T tell Voldy how to kill Harry. I dont see Voldy getting ANY benefit from hearing the prophecy. WHAT AM I MISSING?
these two questions are eating at my brain right now. I havent read anything on any other board or mailing list or talked in person with anyone, and it is 7am, so maybe i'm missing something. please help.
Tsyr
Explorer
I don't need to say Spoilers Ahead, but I will anyhow...
That's good enough.
Getting this out of the way first, the bad, IMO:
Harry in the first 1/3 of his after-muggle scenes in the book. Too tempermental... It just really seemed out of character for him.
The thing with Cho... Ok, sure, you wanna give Harry a fleeting love interest. Fine. WHY CHO? She really doesn't seem like all that great of a prospect, constantly throwing little fits at Harry whenever he mentions Herm... I mean, anyone who had payed attention at Hogwards *knew* they were long-time friends, so why is it a surprise that he still is? (Of course, I have little luck on the romantic front myself, so this might be part of the problem... Expecting common sense and all.
)
The thing with Percy... Either that better get resolved before the end of the series, or we better get an explanation better than "Percy wants to get promoted" for Percy acting, like, well, to quote (or nearly so) Ron, "the biggest git in the world".
Death of Sirrus. Bah. I liked Sirrus. Sirrus was cool. And his death didn't even have meaning.
The good:
The book in general read very well.
Is it just me, or did this one seem to be less regionalized than they have done with past books? There were a lot more british-isms I noticed in this one.
Developing Neville's character.
Luna (Even if they didn't do much with her)
The "Harry Potter Realed" interview, and the after effects of it.
Seeing the reactions of the entire school to the new rules as they got introduced.
McGonagall. She kicked ass.
Umbridge. Evil as hell or not, she was a great character. Great character. I loved her slipping more and more from the "Hard-hearted semi-evil" Umbridge to the maniac, out-of-control, paranoid, semi-inane, pure evil Umbridge at the end. And I LOVED her fate, and I LOVE that Rowling left it very vauge what happened to her. My mind has invented a number of decidedly Un-Eric's Grandma Friendly (TM) ideas as to her fate... Considering her reaction to the sound of hooves...
Fred and George. Fred and George! Awsome characters! Just awsome. Their exit was amazing, and it showed so much character that they were willing to do what they did... Class clowns or no, they knew they were risking a lot doing that, not just being expelled (Which they didn't care about, of course).
Dumbledor's exit when DA is revealed. Like the painting said... "He has style.".
Dumbledor at the end.
The D.A.
The portrait of Sirrus' mom. I have relatives that would do that if they could.
The scene where they tried to take Hagrid, and he went berzerk... Even if I most assuredly did not like what happend to McGonagall during that.
Things I'm still trying to figure out my feelings on:
The memory of James Potter as a student. Um... Not how I imagined him. Sirrus' explanation doesn't really mollify that, either.
Hagrid. He just seemed... Off his game this book. Even for him.
Occlumency... It doesn't seem like a magical art so much as "Let me torture you mentaly and you develop a resistance to it.". But, then, we never really saw much of it, so...
That's good enough.
Getting this out of the way first, the bad, IMO:
Harry in the first 1/3 of his after-muggle scenes in the book. Too tempermental... It just really seemed out of character for him.
The thing with Cho... Ok, sure, you wanna give Harry a fleeting love interest. Fine. WHY CHO? She really doesn't seem like all that great of a prospect, constantly throwing little fits at Harry whenever he mentions Herm... I mean, anyone who had payed attention at Hogwards *knew* they were long-time friends, so why is it a surprise that he still is? (Of course, I have little luck on the romantic front myself, so this might be part of the problem... Expecting common sense and all.
)The thing with Percy... Either that better get resolved before the end of the series, or we better get an explanation better than "Percy wants to get promoted" for Percy acting, like, well, to quote (or nearly so) Ron, "the biggest git in the world".
Death of Sirrus. Bah. I liked Sirrus. Sirrus was cool. And his death didn't even have meaning.
The good:
The book in general read very well.
Is it just me, or did this one seem to be less regionalized than they have done with past books? There were a lot more british-isms I noticed in this one.
Developing Neville's character.
Luna (Even if they didn't do much with her)
The "Harry Potter Realed" interview, and the after effects of it.
Seeing the reactions of the entire school to the new rules as they got introduced.
McGonagall. She kicked ass.
Umbridge. Evil as hell or not, she was a great character. Great character. I loved her slipping more and more from the "Hard-hearted semi-evil" Umbridge to the maniac, out-of-control, paranoid, semi-inane, pure evil Umbridge at the end. And I LOVED her fate, and I LOVE that Rowling left it very vauge what happened to her. My mind has invented a number of decidedly Un-Eric's Grandma Friendly (TM) ideas as to her fate... Considering her reaction to the sound of hooves...
Fred and George. Fred and George! Awsome characters! Just awsome. Their exit was amazing, and it showed so much character that they were willing to do what they did... Class clowns or no, they knew they were risking a lot doing that, not just being expelled (Which they didn't care about, of course).
Dumbledor's exit when DA is revealed. Like the painting said... "He has style.".
Dumbledor at the end.
The D.A.
The portrait of Sirrus' mom. I have relatives that would do that if they could.
The scene where they tried to take Hagrid, and he went berzerk... Even if I most assuredly did not like what happend to McGonagall during that.
Things I'm still trying to figure out my feelings on:
The memory of James Potter as a student. Um... Not how I imagined him. Sirrus' explanation doesn't really mollify that, either.
Hagrid. He just seemed... Off his game this book. Even for him.
Occlumency... It doesn't seem like a magical art so much as "Let me torture you mentaly and you develop a resistance to it.". But, then, we never really saw much of it, so...
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Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
stevelabny said:
Hmm. It must not have worked for you. The Big Danger (tm) was Dolores Umbridge (love that name!) and the clear demonstration of what regular people can do to one another when they get scared, petty and power-crazed. This book says that you don't need to be a terrible wizard to ruin peoples' lives. I thought the fact that most of the misery wasn't caused by Voldemort to be quite telling, actually. It echoes the refrain that Voldemort's biggest power is sowing dissent.
I think this was a good choice. Seven books of always focusing on Voldemort would get old, fast. This gives us another villain, and one I think I hate worse!
I too thought that Hagrid wasn't quite on his game in this book. He didn't get any really good scenes. Maybe the pain of the bruises was bothering him.
It was a delight learning how Trelawny was hired.
I'll buy that Percy and Arthur are in cahoots together, but not Molly. If there is a plan, no one has told her.
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thatdarncat
Overlord of Chat
drothgery said:
That'd be the easy out, the less emotionally charged way to go. What if Percy really is on the splits with his family? What if he really doesn't come back? He can't forgive them for being right while he was wrong.
He doesn't need to go over to the death eaters to be a villian, as we've seen.
Bob Aberton
First Post
On the subject of James P. & Snape:
Well, I'm torn here...sure, as a one time incident, something like what happened to Snape shouldn't be incredibly bad. However, it strikes me that what Rowling was trying to show was that Snape really didn't have any friends who actually cared about him, and if J & S treated him like that every day, for 7 (seven) years, then yeah, I imagine that would make for some pretty bad memories.
Still, with the clips into Snape's memories, Rowling missed a golden opportunity; she could have showed some memories from Snape's time as a Death Eater; you know, show just how bad the Death Eaters can be (and let's face it, in both books the Death Eaters have appeared in, they've made a pretty poor showing of it. I mean, some of the worst criminals in wizard-dom, and they get beaten first by Harry singlehanded, then by a handful of school children. And these are some of the worst Dark wizards of their day?), maybe show just what Snape has to go through as a spy; create some more sympathy for the character.
Instead, what you got was pretty much a whiny teenage being picked on by some other teenage punks. That's really not much of a bad memory, as stevelabny pointed out, or at least it doesn't seem like much of one on the surface...
Well, I'm torn here...sure, as a one time incident, something like what happened to Snape shouldn't be incredibly bad. However, it strikes me that what Rowling was trying to show was that Snape really didn't have any friends who actually cared about him, and if J & S treated him like that every day, for 7 (seven) years, then yeah, I imagine that would make for some pretty bad memories.
Still, with the clips into Snape's memories, Rowling missed a golden opportunity; she could have showed some memories from Snape's time as a Death Eater; you know, show just how bad the Death Eaters can be (and let's face it, in both books the Death Eaters have appeared in, they've made a pretty poor showing of it. I mean, some of the worst criminals in wizard-dom, and they get beaten first by Harry singlehanded, then by a handful of school children. And these are some of the worst Dark wizards of their day?), maybe show just what Snape has to go through as a spy; create some more sympathy for the character.
Instead, what you got was pretty much a whiny teenage being picked on by some other teenage punks. That's really not much of a bad memory, as stevelabny pointed out, or at least it doesn't seem like much of one on the surface...
thatdarncat
Overlord of Chat
Bob Aberton said:
I wouldn't say Harry and his friends beat the death eaters this time. They stayed alive long enough for wizards from the order to save them, and those wizards took casualties. They were about to be killed, they survived longer than some, maybe most wizards might have, but they knew what they were getting into. They'd been training to fight Death Eaters for months remember. And they barely survived. Besides Harry, who was still active when the rescue came?
