[SPOILERS][OT] "Return of the King" -- Does Shelob get shafted?

[Olgar Shiverstone]

This is the big thing for me, too. I keep hoping it'll make the director's cut, at least.

I was under the impression (from one of PJ's interviews, can't remember which one) that the Scouring was never filmed. The brief glimpse in Galadriel's mirror was his only nod in that direction.

 

[Alaric_Prympax]

This is the big thing for me, too. I keep hoping it'll make the director's cut, at least.

Did they even film the Scouring of the Shire? I thought I heard that they did not. It's a shame because the Scouring of the Shire showed how much the characters of Merry, Pippen, and Sam grew from basically children to adults IMO.

 

[Stormcrow]

Indeed. The revolt against "Sharkey" was the defining moment for Frodo as a leader of Men, er, Hobbits I supose. It is the consumation of all that he worked towards. Kind of his way of saying I didn't save the world to lose my home.

 

[Welverin]

Did they even film the Scouring of the Shire? I thought I heard that they did not. It's a shame because the Scouring of the Shire showed how much the characters of Merry, Pippen, and Sam grew from basically children to adults IMO.

Nope, PJ has specifically said it's not going to be in the movie, same as Tom.

 

[Gabriel1]

Shelob Has to be included. Tolkein's trilogy of Frodo's injuries when he strays form the path would not be complete: The Nazgul get him when he puts on the Ring, Shelob Gets him when he is careless, and Gollum gets his finger when he claims the ring for himself. Besides, Cirith Ungol is named that because Shelob is there...a descendent of Ungoliant. And why would you cut one of the coolest monsters in the stories, might as well have cut the Balrog.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Shelob Has to be included. Tolkein's trilogy of Frodo's injuries when he strays form the path would not be complete: The Nazgul get him when he puts on the Ring, Shelob Gets him when he is careless, and Gollum gets his finger when he claims the ring for himself. Besides, Cirith Ungol is named that because Shelob is there...a descendent of Ungoliant. And why would you cut one of the coolest monsters in the stories, might as well have cut the Balrog.

Its not an issue of them cutting Shelob, its an issue of it not being in THIS film. Shelob is there, in RoTK.

PJ makes a valid argument that purists would like; Frodo and Sam don't have a lot to do in an RoTK movie if Shelob has already been dealt with. Also, it aligns the various characters timelines more accurately.

Its been said many times by PJ and others that the Scouring isn't in the films, and never was filmed, even to add to the DVDs.

I can understand his point of view. I love the Scouring of the Shire, but I can understand how it wouldn't clearly fit in the films. If something has to be cut, it is the best choice (sadly).

 

[mooby]

Thanks for all the responss, everybody. I didn't remember that Shelob was at teh end of TTT (it's been a while since I read the books).

this must have been what my friend meant. I feel much better now.

 

[Brudewollen]

Shelob has to be there...why else focus on the Phial of Galadrial (and only the Phial of Galadrial) in the abreviated "Gift Giving" sequence if Shelob won't be there.

As for one person's concern that putting it in the 3rd movie will mess up Tolkien's structure, this argument doesn't hold water either. The publisher of the books essentially messed up Tolkien's original intended structure when he split the series into 3 books from the single volume Tolkien had originally intended. The books where split somewhat arbatrairly (with Tolkien's grudging conscent) at places that made the best sense and based on the length of the books.

Tolkien saw the books as one continuous story, not 3 (or 6 - like the book breaks in the middle of each volume). Tolkien could just as easily have ended the 2nd book with the Hobbits watching the armies leaving Minas Morgul, after the Tower of Cirith Ungol, or some other section. Instead he chose to put the break after Shelob. The meaning will still be there, but you'll just have to wait a year for its compleation.

Also, I think it will work better for the Gollum character. He will now be a more major character in two movies. If we had Shelob in the 2nd movie, he would hardly appear in the third and then suddenly, like a deus ex machina (well, he sort of was) he'll appear at the Sammath Naur to do his business with the Ring. It just won't work structurally for the third movie, I don't think.

 

[Epametheus]

Also, chronologically the stuff with Shelob doesn't happen until Gandalf and Pippin reach Gondor, if I remember right.

So what PJ's doing does make sense. The last thing Frodo and Sam will be doing in TTT: the Movie is whatever the heck they doing at the time that Gandalf cast down Saruman, if I'm following this correctly.

 

[Fiery James]

Also, chronologically the stuff with Shelob doesn't happen until Gandalf and Pippin reach Gondor, if I remember right.

So what PJ's doing does make sense. The last thing Frodo and Sam will be doing in TTT: the Movie is whatever the heck they doing at the time that Gandalf cast down Saruman, if I'm following this correctly.

Correct, although they don't get quite that far in the movie. I think Return of the King will start with Saruman getting his and Frodo and Sam entering Shelob's Lair.

- James