[SPOILERS] THE Return of the King Thread

[EricNoah]

Well, Eowyn is no wizard; she could onlyy disguise her so good. I think if PJ would have presented us with a "believable" disguise we would have seen through nonetheless (especially since false beards or something wasn't really available), and just thought how stupid it was that no character in the movie got that.
Otoh, now we can see her ducking away from Theoden riding by, so we see she's trying to remain undetected within her measly disguise. I thought it was alright.

And we wouldn't have had shots establishing her fear/amazement/joy/whathaveyou as she approached battle.

 

[Buttercup]

I saw it last night, and I thought I would post my thoughts before reading this entire thread, so as to avoid contamination. After I've posted, I'll go back and see what everyone else thought, and maybe reply here and there.

First, I think the casting was superlative. I don't watch many movies or much TV, so most of these people were totally new to me. But dang! PJ nailed it every time.

The only change from the book that annoyed me was the 'Arwen is dying' schtick. Totally unnecessary and cheesy.

I absolutely loved Bernard Hill's portrayal of Theoden. It was masterful. Shakespearean, even. Of course, it helped that they left in his soliloquys from the book. He really nailed the Beowulf aspect of being a King of Rohan.

Eowyn was totally cool and inspiring in the battle of the Pellenor. The only thing I wanted that was not there was to hear her say "Begone, foul dwimmerlaik!" like she does in the book.

Loved Legolas and the elephant. Was it cheesy? Of course. What's your point?

Sean Astin put in an amazing performance. Samwise the hero indeed. When Frodo tells him to go home, his tears broke my heart, and made me shed some of my own. I hope he wins best supporting actor. At the very least, I don't think he'll ever want for acting jobs.

I wanted to see more of Faramir's story--the scenes in the Houses of Healing with Eowyn are poignant in the book, and I hope they make it into the extended version. I shed some tears at the way Denethor treated him. Of course, part of why I want to see his story is because the actor, David Wenham, is tasty eye candy.

Now that I've seen Shelob, my players had better beware if I ever run giant spiders again, boy howdy. Disgusting and frightening at the same time. Filled with evil goodness.

Generally, the battles were amazing. I'm not a big fan of the shaking camera technique, but I can see how the disorientation and confusion it adds made the battle scenes appropriately chaotic. And I loved the catapults of Minas Tirith throwing big chunks of damaged buildings out onto the enemy, where they squashed whole platoons. Wholesale slaughter, baby!

I'm glad that they kept going with the Gimli/Legolas competition, but I wish the dwarf would have been a bit more than comic relief.

Overall though, I think I liked TT extended version best so far. I just couldn't care enough about Gondor and its people. I knew from the books that I was supposed to, and why. But if I had not read the books (10+ times) I don't think I would have understood who they were or why they mattered. The Rohirrim seemed far more interesting to me, and captured my heart far more. Perhaps PJ will spend a bit more time on the people of Minas Tirith, so they will seem worth all the trouble.

That's all for now. I didn't get to bed until 2:00 am, and woke at 5:15. I'm not functioning fully today.

 

[danbala]

No Gandalf confrontation with the Witch King! QUOTE]

You just made me realize that this: http://www.lordoftherings.net/media/desktops/creatures_witchking2_1024.jpg

wasn't in the movie! I guess we know one new scene for the EE!

 

[Buttercup]

When the Rohirrim all chanted "Death!" as they charged into battle against a host they had no hope of defeating, I had shivers throughout my body. When Sam, realising (apparently) for the first time, that there would be no return trip, but he still stoutly picked Frodo up and carried him most of the way up the slope of Mt. Doom, I felt something similar. And I understood the satisfaction Theoden had during his dying moments as he said he could now go to his mighty ancestors and not feel ashamed to stand amongst them, or Faramir's willingness to go on an errand that he knew to be suicide.

I found these moments to be chilingly powerful too. And I too, found it surprising, and somehow heartening, that in our modern ammoral culture such scenes of honor without hope of reward could be so stirring.

I'm glad PJ understood these scenes from the book so well. This trilogy could have been a disaster if it had been done by someone who did not respect the text enough. Even though he made some changes, none of them (except the Arwen one I mentioned in my previous post) struck me as unnecessary or as fumbles.

 

[Buttercup]

I was kind of disappointed that the Mouth of Sauron didn't make it into the movie. I was looking forward to seeing him present Gandalf and Aragorn with Frodo's gear and seeing the despair on their faces as they believe that Frodo failed in the quest.

Yeah, me too. Perhaps we'll see it in the extended version, but I suspect not.

 

[Pielorinho]

It was I who had to pry my wife's hand from my leg as Shelob was stalking Frodo. That scene was every bit as creepy as I had read, and it was the first time I was actually taken aback by a giant spider in a movie (usually they're just not that scary).

True about giant spiders. I think part of what made it so scary was that WETA had obviously thought a lot about how a giant spider would fight, and made her seem massive and clever. She was constantly throwing her weight around, knocking him to the side with her forelegs, pinning him, and so forth; her fighting style was like a special form of kung fu you can only do if you have eight legs, fangs, and an abdominal stinger . Most giant spiders just attack by running up and biting at you -- borrrrring!

Shelob, without having a single line, came across as wickedly intelligent, as having a personality. Quite a difficult feat.

As for Faramir's suicidal charge, I gotta say that hit me hard. I'm nowhere near an expert on the books, having read them three times in twenty years, and I have no head at all for battle scenes. When Faramir and his troops started to ride out, I was thinking, "Surely they're not really going back to Osgyliath? Surely someone's going to stop them just in time?" And then the expressions on the faces of the orcs as they see the line of cavalry coming across the field -- the orcs thinking, incredulously, "Are you fools serious?" And then everyone charging forward to their deaths as the orcs shrug and accommodate them -- it took me until the end of Pippin's song to believe it was really* happening. Superb!

Daniel

* you know what I mean

 

[Buttercup]

I truly felt Jackson needed one more movie to tie this up right. I think they were stuck in trilogy mode from the beginning and Lord of the Rings required a break with tradition.

Maybe, but given the hard time he had convincing anyone to make three movies, I think four would never have happened.

The Battle of the Pelennor fields and all that happened during that time could have been a movie in and of itself. The pacing was so fast it felt like they were stuffing me full of epic, momentous, emotionally powerful moments until my mind was too over-whelmed to care anymore. Just too fast paced for me and not enough time given for the moments to build and reach climax before the next moment came. It was a whirlwind.

I think this may be why I liked Two Towers better. As we were walking back to the car after the movie, my husband said "Was Peter Jackson trying to see how many epic battles he could cram into one movie or something?" Granted, hubby hasn't read the books for 20 years, but he does have a point.

 

[Buttercup]

"Begone, foul dwimmerlaik!"

Which is possibly the best line ever given to any character at any time in any work of human creativity. But I acknowledge that is my own idiosyncrasy.

It's an idiosyncrasy we share, then. I'm sorely disappointed at the lack of that line too.

For me, Eowyn has always been one of the bravest and most interesting characters in the trilogy. By cutting this short, the diminished her. She was still wonderful, and I savored the scene. But. I. Want. That. Line.

 

[barsoomcore]

Maybe, but given the hard time he had convincing anyone to make three movies, I think four would never have happened.

On the other hand, given the 1.8 BILLION dollars the first two films have generated (so far), I'd say he'd have an easier time of it now...

Shame the films have already been done, hey?

 

[Buttercup]

On the other hand, given the 1.8 BILLION dollars the first two films have generated (so far), I'd say he'd have an easier time of it now...

I've been thinking about this. The commercial success of these films ought to prove to even the most out-of-touch suit that doing it right can earn you more money than doing it cheap.

I wonder if there will be any lasting changes on the way studios think about movies and their financing.